IM SICK OF THIS *$#! whats ruining golf...

[flanagan]

To me, the difference is golf 15 years ago compared to now. Years back, etiquitte and manners were more strictly adhered to on the golf course. The game was more friendly, and ,not coincidentally, less popular. Now, especially with the Tiger effect (not blaming Tiger, just pointing out that he has caused numbers of new fans of golf, and golfers), combined with society as a whole being less concerned with the etiquitte and manners, has caused issues like this.

It may be a generational thing, but it's become much more common compared with 30 years ago, and I think even 20 years ago, to expect to see a motorized cart loaded with a course-supplied cooler, etc. On course beverage carts are almost expected to be provided, which even further hold up play. Even when I was a lot younger and playing golf in junior high and high school through the 70s, the older guys out on men's afternoon, etc. would mostly get their refreshments at the turn, and there was a LOT more walking. The cocktails were for the clubhouse, after the round.

Everyone has their own way of enjoying the game, but I see more people now than years ago for whom golfing is mostly about the party on the cart, whether league night or "scrambles". Some of that can lead to all sorts of on course issues we all deal with from time to time. Just an observation.

[WilsonWill]

Most of these posts Ive seen seem to be more middle aged gentlemen who are the slow players. 40-50ish years old. Not that it makes a difference, as they may be new to the game too, but I dont think you can say "Its those d*m kids" on this one.

[uuassistant2009]

so i would like to know who decided golf was supposed to be a fast paced game. If you cannot go out and enjoy the day because you are watching the clock then stay home and be a couch potato. I played competitive golf in college and most of our rounds took anywhere from 5 to 6 hours to play 18 holes. It's the fact that we were out there playing a game and not in the classroom or at work that we liked. We would get to par 3's that were backed up with 1 group on the green and 2 on the tee.

I now am the assistant coach at a university in ohio and I sometimes have to play as a single behind my golfers. You wanna talk about a slow round. But I take extra time going over things like the wind, the distance, the shot i'm trying to hit (may not be an option for most).

But anyway, like i said, if you are in a hurry to play a round of golf, you are playing the wrong sport. Enjoy it while you can and be glad you do not play in Japan where they have to wait 6 months just to get on any course!

[LNCHBOX]

so i would like to know who decided golf was supposed to be a fast paced game. If you cannot go out and enjoy the day because you are watching the clock then stay home and be a couch potato. I played competitive golf in college and most of our rounds took anywhere from 5 to 6 hours to play 18 holes. It's the fact that we were out there playing a game and not in the classroom or at work that we liked. We would get to par 3's that were backed up with 1 group on the green and 2 on the tee.

Great post.

[Jared]

I understand what you are saying Todd, but I think there is a difference between competitive rounds on the collegiate level and the average player getting in 18 on their local course. I played some competitive golf (just in high school), and those rounds were expectedly much slower. The frustrating thing is when you see the group ahead falling behind the pace of play, and not having the awareness to either speed up play or let faster groups through.

When I am playing 18 on a Sunday morning, that is time away from my wife and children, and time away from other things I need to get done. I love to play, there is nothing I would rather do than play, but I will take 4 or 4 1/2 hours over 5 or 6 any day.

The point is, slow play is a scourge and IS avoidable.

[TheNatural]

I understand what you are saying Todd, but I think there is a difference between competitive rounds on the collegiate level and the average player getting in 18 on their local course. I played some competitive golf (just in high school), and those rounds were expectedly much slower. The frustrating thing is when you see the group ahead falling behind the pace of play, and not having the awareness to either speed up play or let faster groups through.

AMEN Praise the Lord...

[iacas]

so i would like to know who decided golf was supposed to be a fast paced game.

Nobody decided. But "deciding" as an individual that you don't care about pace of play disrespects the time of others.

Your post is like asking "I would like to know who decided you should be courteous to others."

If you cannot go out and enjoy the day because you are watching the clock then stay home and be a couch potato.

No, you don't get to make either/or type statements like that. If everyone was more respectful and played at an "appropriate" pace, more people could enjoy the day. If you want to spend six hours on a golf course, play 27 holes.

I played competitive golf in college

As the other poster pointed out, that's different.

But anyway, like i said, if you are in a hurry to play a round of golf, you are playing the wrong sport.

Errrr, no.

[ElWagonne]

I agree with Jared on this one, but I will provide a possible reason as to why golfers may be sooo slow. The newer golfers were probably never taught things such as ettiquette and a proper pre-shot routine. When I picked up the game at around the age of 10, we had lessons on how to not drag your feet on the greens and how to repair divots. Concerning a pre-shot routine, we had mentors that walked you through how to judge wind, pick a line, take 2-3 practice swings then hit, not take 5-6 swings, hit a bad shot, drop another ball, take 3-4 more practice swings then hit yet another bad shot. I honestly think that the "First Tee" generation, with the teachings they're getting, will be a lot better at this, but one must be patient.

Let the Chuuch say AMEN

[WilsonWill]

The "" around your "appropriate" pace iacas are the key to this whole discussion. Its all relative. Who makes the call to what an "appropriate" pace is? Maybe all the guys complaining in this thread are blisteringly fast paced guys who have no patience?

Point is that its impossible to say what is a decent pace of play as its all personal opinion.

The key thing that should be taken away from this and all posts similar IMO is to be aware and courteous of your fellow golfer, whether it be in the form of allowing faster players through or in the form of not blowing up on a slow group in front of you if they are at least trying to be considerate of the groups behind them.

[iacas]

The "" around your "appropriate" pace iacas are the key to this whole discussion. Its all relative. Who makes the call to what an "appropriate" pace is?

Common courtesy. Common sense. Common decency.

Unfortunately it's not all that common. History tells us that you can play a round of golf in four hours quite comfortably as well, so that helps to provide some information as to what's "appropriate." It's not just golfers who are to blame, either. Tee sheets should have 10-minute or even 12-minute intervals between them. Too often these days we see intervals of 6 to 8 minutes.

Maybe all the guys complaining in this thread are blisteringly fast paced guys who have no patience?

It's quite likely that'd be a poor assumption. Again, polls and history have both shown that most people see a four-hour round as the sweet spot or "goal." It makes no sense to assume we have a largely dis-proportionate collection of lightning fast golfers in the forum.

Point is that its impossible to say what is a decent pace of play as its all personal opinion.

There's a difference, though, between "personal opinion" and "what history and polls have shown us." A poll is, after all, a collective opinion.

Like you said, it comes down to courtesy, and not enough people are courteous or even seem to understand what it means. And I think we all know it only takes one dis-courteous foursome to slow down 20+ other foursomes.

[Carolinahooker]

First post, looks like a great site.

I can't believe some people have to play a six hour round. That is just crazy. Mine are usually about 4 1/2 hours.

I don't think it matters how fast a player you are, if the group behind you is faster, you let them play through. Speediness of a round is relative but it is irrelevant. If I am holding someone up, I let them play through.

Doesn't seem like there is even another side to this discussion.

[flanagan]

so i would like to know who decided golf was supposed to be a fast paced game. If you cannot go out and enjoy the day because you are watching the clock then stay home and be a couch potato. I played competitive golf in college and most of our rounds took anywhere from 5 to 6 hours to play 18 holes. It's the fact that we were out there playing a game and not in the classroom or at work that we liked. We would get to par 3's that were backed up with 1 group on the green and 2 on the tee.

Glad you posted this, because you are an example of what has and continues to contribute to the problem. College golf, the home of the six hour round, is routinely held up by the knowledgeable commentators in the game, in print and on air, as one of the prime examples of how slow play has gotten out of control.

Acceptance of the unacceptable is not the answer. Walking 9 holes on most courses in 1 1/2 hours is pretty easy to do, 2 hours is far from rushed, not even bringing up carts. Expecting to play at a reasonable pace is not playing in a hurry. College golf is far from a good example to defend or preach acceptance of slow play.

[Dub]

Tee off today at 940AM ....after a frost delay ok....no big deal 45 minutes behind intended time....

Slow play sucks!!!! Slow play and you are entertaining clients.....unbearable. At least it gives you more time to chat with them.

I could care less what tees the groups ahead play from....I hope they enjoy their round, too. I'm surprised they didn't wave you through after it was obvious that you were waiting every hole for extended periods. A cell phone call to the pro shop should have ended the delay once the round was under way. The marshall could have seen how out of position the course was and gotten you through.....one would hope, anyway. One of the many things that I truly love about my home course is that it does get a lot of play, however they do extremely well routing folks through the nines and monitor the pace of play very well. One thing that is super about cart golf is the gps units onboard. I feel this way for three reasons:

1. yardages are right there for you...saves folks from stepping off yardages every shot....it used to kill me to watch a hacker step off yardages at like 250 out and then skull his shot only 50 yards....argh.....yep, I've done it, too.
2. they can order food and such and have it ready for them at the turn....cuts down on waiting at the 10th....something I truly despise doing
3. Perhaps equallly important....the pace of play is DISPLAYED on the gps unit and OBVIOUS to all....example....14 mins behind......7 mins ahead......etc. They watch it in the pro shop and radio the Marshalls to swing by and observe folks and take approriate action.....I love it.

[Prairie Golfer]

The "" around your "appropriate" pace iacas are the key to this whole discussion. Its all relative. Who makes the call to what an "appropriate" pace is?

The golf course?

From my golf course's website... Pace of Play It is the goal of all players to complete their 18-hole round in four hours or less. This is an adequate amount of time, provided all players remain aware of their responsibility to play without delay. Each group should keep pace with the group ahead. If your group falls one complete hole behind the group ahead, you are required to allow the following group to play through. It is the responsibility of your group to be observant of its position on the course and to keep pace. It is also the responsibility of all groups to advise management if their pace of play is adversely affected. The ranger has the authority to keep play moving at the proper pace for all players' enjoyment. Players unwilling to keep pace may be removed from the course.

[WilsonWill]

Thats great, makes it cut/dry for everyone, but thats an exception to the rule I think. Most have that kind of statement, but I havent seen many w/ an actual time period designated. Here is my local courses:

Pace of Play

Slow play will not be tolerated. Course assistants will be on site to assist players and maintain the proper pace of play. Walkers will be required to maintain the designated pace of play.

Again, Im not defending slow play by those who dont consider their fellow golfers, but I also think some are too quick to judge people or have too high expectations as far as a time period to get a round in. IMO they both are bad for golf.

[FowlerFan]

I agree that no golfer should be forced to endure a six hour round, but it is almost equally annoying for a foursome of mid-handicappers (12-20) to be pushed through any semi-challenging 18 hole the course in four hours. I happen to enjoy the game for relaxation and the opportunity to "get away from it all" for a few hours. I'm a 14 handicap, and there's absolutely nothing relaxing about trying to keep up the pace of a four hour round if there's any danger to be found anywhere on the course. It's a race from start to finish, and the game's founders surely didn't intend it to be that way.

The average, and even slightly above average golfer simply can't be expected to keep that pace. Not all of their (our?) shots are splitting the fairway, and (dare I say) once in awhile an 8 hits the card! The reality is that it's not all that uncommon for one to have to look for ball in the rough (if the course has one, as the courses I play do).

I agree with Eric in that 6-8 minute tee slots place too many golfers in a position of waiting the very minute somebody puts one in the rough, or takes two from the trap and a three putt to get home. A little more room would help take the pressure off each and every shot.

In the end, if you're looking for your shot 15 yards in the woods...drop one and get on with it - you're holding everyone up. If your plumb-bobbing a 10 footer for double bogey, just putt it...your holding everyone up. But equally as bad, if your playing a public course on a Saturday or Sunday morning and didn't give yourself enough time to make your brunch date with Buffy four hours and 15 minutes after tee-off, get off my back. It's your own fault, and you're ruining my round!

[uuassistant2009]

Nobody decided. But "deciding" as an individual that you don't care about pace of play disrespects the time of others.

Look, slow play is a problem I will agree with that. However, golf is a game about discipline and patience. These to attributes have allowed me to become the golfer I am today. I'm not going to pretend to be a pro, cause I'm a long way from that ever happening. I just think people need to understand that the guy infront of them that just shot 110 for an 18 hole round may have just played the best round of his life.

On another note, with the national amateur average floating right around "100", yes it is in fact 100 , I do not think any golfer out there has any right to criticize another person's ability or game. I played with 3 guys yesterday who's average age was around 70 and they played the senior/women's tees at my course. It was by far the most enjoyable round this year. They were hitting 7W from 150 yds and their short games were the only good part of the their game. But the key was that they did not care what the score card said at the end. Face it everyone wants to shoot at least 1 stroke better than what they end up with. Unfortunately that is the most frustrating part of the game. So, no matter what your target score is, go out and enjoy the fact that you are standing upright and can still swing the club. Even if it is the more spasm than and actual swing.

[uuassistant2009]

on a sunday morning? you would have been kicked off the course for 1 and for 2 good luck getting back to the holes you missed. but i do agree with the non courtesy of most golfers anymore. this should be a responsibility of the courses to pass this along since most golfers do not grow up having their father or local golf pro teach them the ways of golf.