How to get the ball to spin

[iWALK18]

sorry but thats completely bullshit.

I completely agree with you.

________________ My opinion: I think concentrating on swinging a different way to get spin is a mistake. I've heard many good players recommend using trajectory more than spin to stop the ball. I absolutely do not take divots, and my irons all hold on the green (right up to 4i). Are you a shorter hitting player? Do you get a low flight from your irons? These factors could be the main contributes to your lack of hold. Before changing your swing, I would suggest changing to a ball designed to give higher ball flight, and or a urethane cover to give you some more spin, and see how that goes for you. Someone suggested e5+, and power spin. These are the two balls I play, and I think they are great suggestions.

[grantc79]

if you really believe that they are slowing significantly and are able to stay in balance because they are taking divots i dont know what to say to you. I never said you shouldnt take divots....but this idea that the ground and the ball absorbing momentum being factors in being able to finish in balance is ridiculous.

It is a way of looking at it that will help someone who is trying to spin the ball which is all I was offering.

If you do not have a steep enough angle of attack aka hit down on the ball then you cannot spin the ball with a wedge. If you have a steep angle of attack then you will take a divot. If you take a divot you will release a lot of energy into the ball and into the ground. These are all ways of looking at it which will help someone with a shallow angle of attack, who does not take divots, and does not direct his energy downward at the ball but rather outward towards the target. Now if you want to get technical and split hairs that's fine. We can get as highly technical as you want. But the simple fact is that everything I listed is a good way to look at it to get someone to hit down on the ball more and take better divots. Why do you think so many training aids exist and so many analogies exist to help people understand what they are trying to do in the golf swing? A lot of great teachers have equated club head lag to dragging a mop across a floor. Now someone like you might jump up and down yelling and screaming "theres no mop there's no mop" but at the end of the day if that's what a player needs to think to develop lag then thats a good analogy to use. I've seen baseball/softball players with an over the top swing and you can literally tell them "hit the ball down the right field line" and they are almost instantly now on plane because they start swinging more outwards. Are they holding a bat and swinging at a baseball? No, but they are hearing what they need to hear.

[grantc79]

Either way I would like you to answer this question.

Do you attempt to maintain your club head speed after impact?

Or do you attempt to maximize your club head speed and release your club head speed into the ball/ground at impact and relax in your follow through?

[laconic517]

Either way I would like you to answer this question.

youd accelerate through impact.

[grantc79]

youd accelerate through impact.

So basically, maximize your acceleration just after impact of the ball?

You accelerate down into the ball (assuming you aren't hitting a driver) at an angle that has you wind up accelerating into the ground. My whole point was that 10 inches after impact you should be done accelerating and you should actually be slowing down at that point. How is that really any different than anything I have said earlier? I think we have a little misunderstanding or miscommunication here......

[mdvaldosta]

So if Jack Nicklaus uses his divots to slow his swing down and maintain balance, how does he hit a driver? Does the tee slow him down? Just asking...

[grantc79]

So if Jack Nicklaus uses his divots to slow his swing down and maintain balance, how does he hit a driver? Does the tee slow him down? Just asking...

Did you not read any of my posts?

If you didn't then please do so and then if you still feel the need to ask the question then do so. Now if you'd like to answer my question as to do you attempt to maintain your club head speed well past impact then I would appreciate it. I asked first.

[scratchgolferinbama]

I bet you guys had that guy hitting FAT shots all day. Prob ruined his round. FACT is a ball WILL spin back on either a shallow or steep angle of attack. I hit a low one hop back spin shot with a very shallow angle. I hit a moon ball that comes back steeply. It's only a matter of clean contact with reasonably clean grooves. Its just that simple.

By the way, I happen to swing through the ball torwards my target on every shot, and believe me I take nice meaty divots. I think there would be a lot of broken clubs and sore arms and wrists if we all just aimed at the ground. To each his own.

[grantc79]

I bet you guys had that guy hitting FAT shots all day. Prob ruined his round. FACT is a ball WILL spin back on either a shallow or steep angle of attack. I hit a low one hop back spin shot with a very shallow angle. I hit a moon ball that comes back steeply. It's only a matter of clean contact with reasonably clean grooves. Its just that simple.

The whole point is that I personally believe that people need certain analogies in order to understand what people are trying to tell them.

My teacher has so many props, gadgets, gizmos, and everything else lying around that its ridiculous. Half of it isn't even related to golf but it can be used in relation to the golf swing. The most obvious example is the feeling of dragging a mop across the floor and how that feeling is similar to proper club head lag. Should someone hit straight down on the ball and attempt to dig a crater? No absolutely not. But if they are hitting thin then that might be the feeling that they need to start hitting proper shots.

[Williamevanl]

I read this whole post and my experiences seem to agree with everything grantc79 is saying. I had epiphany like instance on the golf course a couple years ago when I was trying out different things. I use to kind of throw the ball at the target with my swing, kind of like a closed stance pull hook that looked like a straight ball flight. Anyway I found that if I opened my stance *probably just square but felt opened* and swung well from the inside out at the ball on par threes the ball would hit and back up 1-6 feet and this was with an 8 iron through pw. *yes even with crap balls* Btw this never worked with my sand wedge/ lob wedge

Before that I thought spin had everything to do with clubhead speed and steep angle of attack, The problem with thinking that is that it caused me to kill the ball with a lob wedge hitting it 110 yards while slamming the club into the ground right at the ball with a steep over the top motion. Huge divot lots of club head speed, zero spin. Also my divots pointed sharply right to left.

Here is my two cents: watch a vid of tiger hitting a wedge or any club the he spins the hell out of. You'll notice that while the club comes into the ball steeply he has a very flat downswing. Way flatter then most average golfers. My wedges finally started stopping for me and I have kicked a couple back recently, *finally* it has everthing to do with proper swing mechanics, my swing flaw was that my hands were too far in front of me causing right to left divots. If I feel like my hands are chasing lagging behind my upper body the divots straighten out, I come from the inside and the ball spins.

Pure backspin IMO is a good way to diagnose a swing flaw, there are all kinds of wrong ways to get a ball where you want it, compensations galore, closed stance, outrageously strong grip, shut shoulders etc.. BUT you will find you can't work the ball like you want to and even a pro-v1 won't back up even twelve inches if you work to many or too much of these compesations into your swing.


If this is wrong someone please let me know and save me some time practicing please!

[bjw181]

I read this whole post and my experiences seem to agree with everything grantc79 is saying. I had epiphany like instance on the golf course a couple years ago when I was trying out different things. I use to kind of throw the ball at the target with my swing, kind of like a closed stance pull hook that looked like a straight ball flight. Anyway I found that if I opened my stance *probably just square but felt opened* and swung well from the inside out at the ball on par threes the ball would hit and back up 1-6 feet and this was with an 8 iron through pw. *yes even with crap balls* Btw this never worked with my sand wedge/ lob wedge

Yeah hes right. Steep doesn't mean straight up and down...An inside swing is essential on every shot. its timing and rhythm that make the great contact.

[grantc79]

Yeah hes right. Steep doesn't mean straight up and down...An inside swing is essential on every shot. its timing and rhythm that make the great contact.

Basically, yes that is the point.

You have two angles to consider here........ First, you have plane line angle which should basically be identical with all of your clubs. See the plane line looking behind a player like Tiger down the target line. The club head shaft will trace that line. Second, you have the angle of attack. You see that by looking at someone with a side view and seeing how narrow their forward swing is. Another way is to look at the angle between their left forearm and the shaft at the top of their swing and how long that angle remains unchanged. Another way of looking at it is see how wide the swing arc is going back vs. how narrow the swing arc is going forward. Irregardless of either you have to be on plane (or pretty close) to hit flush shots and thus hit it on target and spin. Angle of attack and wrist action will determine everything from there.

[Cole_Schmitt]

Steeper swing is probably your best bet. Also, have you tried a softer ball (ProV1)? That could make a difference!

[Mr3Putt]

Forget the ball, my head is spinning from reading this thread!

To the OP, be careful what you wish for!

For years I could predictable figure out how far my ball would roll out on the green. These days, the puppies are sucking back too far! Now when I hit it pin high, end up with a 15 footer! High spinning shots have cost me more than one greenie this season.

Damn this game!

[SubPar]

The club head should be accelerating through impact. Slightly after impact it should be moving faster than at impact. If it is not then you are decelerating and losing club head speed.

I was chided here for saying that you get more spin by pinching the ball against the ground at impact, however I believe I was right about that. On the PGA broadcast Sunday they played a slow motion of Stenson hitting an iron and pointing out how perfectly he "pinched the ball against the fairway". Hitting down on the ball and trapping it increases the compression of the ball against the club face and produces more spin. This is one of the reasons you can spin the ball more off a firm fairway than out of the first cut of rough.

You can control the spin by controlling how you strike the ball to increase or decrease compression. I had this conversation today with a +3 teaching pro. He said you absolutely pinch the ball to produce more spin.



SubPar

[iacas]

I was chided here for saying that you get more spin by pinching the ball against the ground at impact, however I believe I was right about that.

You were chided because you're wrong. I'll say it again: though it's a great mental picture to "pinch the ball against the ground," the ball doesn't actually move downward at all. The forward motion of the club and the loft drastically outweigh the downward frictional force.

The ball, when not topped, begins going up immediately. There's no "pinching." "Pinching the ball" is a great mental picture, bad physics, and anything but reality.

This is one of the reasons you can spin the ball more off a firm fairway than out of the first cut of rough.

No, it's not.

[chspeed]

Agree with iacis above. Ball is not "bouncing" or "pinching" off the turf.

This is one of the reasons you can spin the ball more off a firm fairway than out of the first cut of rough.

The other thing I want to correct is that you spin the ball better from a fairway because there is not grass getting between the club grooves and the ball, not because you can "pinch" it better.

[grantc79]

"Pinching the ball" is a great mental picture, bad physics, and anything but reality.

Ya know that is a very important point. I think with people that have reached a certain point in golf (typically shooting low 80's or better every round) you need absolute and completely understanding. You not only need to understand how, but why, when, and everything else because the more you completely understand the better you can be. But for people trying to break 110, 100, or even 90 you might wanna think drag the mop, pull the rope, hit down on the ball, take a huge divot, etc etc. My 2 cents