Imagine Bobby Jones with a Titanium Driver

[Three Putt]

Probably the same results....Jones, Hogan, Nickalus, Nelson, Palmer, Snead, Woods, Mickelson...etc.... are all winners, and do not take losing for an answer...that's why they are the greatest. They will find a way to win, and it's always from 80 yards and in for the pro's, plus the putter of course.

Ultimate foursome in my book would be Woods, Nickalus, Hogan, and Snead in their prime with 1960 tech clubs.

I'd put my money on Hogan..... while I was sweating placing the bet!!

[Shorty]

The question is moot and meaningless.
Players of all eras use the best equipment available at the time. They would still be the best.
I am more interested in how they would play on smooth greens, raked bunkers with manicured rough.

[NorCalGolfer]

Ok, think about this...Imagine Tiger playing with the equipment that will be around in 80-100 years. Same discussion, different time period.

[mirv]

i've always thought it would be really cool to have a pro tour tournament specifically revolving around the classic technology - persimmons, blades, and calamity jane-style putters (i guess since they don't make balata balls anymore, then it'd still be their choice of ball to play). someone else here already mentioned tiger saying he wishes it were all still persimmon, and honestly, so do i.

but back to subject... sam snead actually kept up with the technology pretty well as long as he was able to play - i saw a photo of his last honorary tee shot at the masters in 2002 and he had what looked like a 460cc driver (or 300 or whatever the standard was at that point). course, he was almost 90 by that point, so his swing didn't have the power that it used to, but what i'm getting at is that if snead, nelson, hogan, jones and the rest were still in their primes and you gave them some time to adjust, i think they could learn to hit modern equipment just fine. they're the best, after all.

[Lemay427]

Someone please explain how persimmon and 60's era blades were any harder to hit than Tigers current blades and woods. He hits them flush and in the sweet spot almost everytime so I dont see how that would change with equipment, given that he had time to practice and adjust. The only thing I see him giving up is distance, but back then the courses were shorter so I beleive its a wash....

[rhodes81]

Byron nelson said the center of these new clubs hits the same as the center of his old clubs

[PEZGolf]

I brought this topic up in another post, but thought it would be fun to expand the discussion:

They would be among the top players of today, but they would not like the balls that are made today to avoid excessive spin. Most golf balls today are designed to go as straight as possible and it makes it difficult to draw or fade the ball as much----remember the expression "work the ball"? Even a player like me, with a clubhead speed of only 92 mph with the driver can notice the difference.

Here is an interesting footnote about distance: in his autobiography, Gene Sarazen describes what it was like to compete against Bob Jones. On the par 4's, their tee shots ended up near each other, but on the par 5's, Jones was always 30 or more yards ahead of "The Squire". Jones swung at about 85% of his maximum speed on the par 4's, and then "let it loose" on the longer holes! Jones hit many drives over 300 yards with hickory shafted clubs, and "soft", balata balls. How far would he drive today's balls with a titanium driver? How about 375 or more?---consistently, and in the fairway!

[PEZGolf]

Someone please explain how persimmon and 60's era blades were any harder to hit than Tigers current blades and woods. He hits them flush and in the sweet spot almost everytime so I dont see how that would change with equipment, given that he had time to practice and adjust. The only thing I see him giving up is distance, but back then the courses were shorter so I beleive its a wash....

Not really a wash. Let us look at Augusta National and some of the old courses that are still used today. Why did The Committee lengthen the site of the Masters? Because modern equipment was making a mockery of the great track. Take the 13th and 15th holes. Nine irons for second shots on par 5's? Those holes were designed to make a golfer choose whether to "go for it" or not, by having the second shot travel anywhere from 185 to 225 yards. Nine irons? Now that the course has been lengthened to make the pros hit long irons or fairway metals to those holes, we see missed shots go splash, as they should. Remember on the Sunday of the Masters when Zach Johnson won? Tiger Woods had broken his four iron's shaft previously, and came to the 15th with a chance to win. He tried to "horse" a five iron, and sent the ball to a "water grave" in Rae's Creek. If he had needed to hit a wedge or nine iron, he may have made eagle and denied Zach his green jacket.

I like it when the USGA grows up the fairway rough in the US Open, and players have to avoid hitting the driver. Then they have long or medium irons into par 4's with greens that are really firm. No wonder that sometimes over par is good enough to win--eg. Angel Cabrera at Oakmont and Geoff Ogilvy at Winged Foot. That is real golf----not driver, wedge, birdie, next tee------and on and on. Here is another course that tells us the differences between the greats of today and those of yesterday. Carnousite is noted for its difficulty---hence it has the nickname "Car--nasty". When Hogan won the Open Championship there in 1953, his scores went down each round, and he set a course record and tournament record on the last day. The one par 5 that is described as one of the most difficult in the world because of its narrow landing area and out of bounds forces many players to avoid using their drivers. It is the sixth hole. Hogan hit driver every day, and hit the fairway 4 out of 4 times. When the Open was held there in 1999, almost no one tried driver, and over par won the tournament (Paul Lawrie, in the playoff with Justin Leonard and the ill fated Jean Van DeVelde). Tiger Woods never broke par in any of his four rounds, and shot a total of 294. Hogan missed one fairway in four rounds, and shot a score of 2 under 282, a total which bettered the course's previous tournament record by eight shots!! Hogan won by four shots, and had to play 36 holes on the last day with his mangled legs from the car accident that almost killed him and his wife, Valerie. His 282 was the best ever in an Open Championship at that time. Here is one way to put Hogan's accomplishment in historical perspective: Hogan, in 1953----------------282 Lawrie in 1999-----------------290 Woods in 1999-----------------294 Those numbers tell us what we need to know.

[NorCalGolfer]

Not really a wash. Let us look at Augusta National and some of the old courses that are still used today. Why did The Committee lengthen the site of the Masters? Because modern equipment was making a mockery of the great track. Take the 13th and 15th holes. Nine irons for second shots on par 5's? Those holes were designed to make a golfer choose whether to "go for it" or not, by having the second shot travel anywhere from 185 to 225 yards. Nine irons? Now that the course has been lengthened to make the pros hit long irons or fairway metals to those holes, we see missed shots go splash, as they should. Remember on the Sunday of the Masters when Zach Johnson won? Tiger Woods had broken his four iron's shaft previously, and came to the 15th with a chance to win. He tried to "horse" a five iron, and sent the ball to a "water grave" in Rae's Creek. If he had needed to hit a wedge or nine iron, he may have made eagle and denied Zach his green jacket.

while I agree with you about making courses harder... the Open Championship part doesn't tell me shit. How was the weather in '53? Was the rough grown? What tee locations were used?

And how come you left out 2007 at "Car-nasty"?? Padraig's 277 -7? What do those numbers tell you?

[PEZGolf]

while I agree with you about making courses harder... the Open Championship part doesn't tell me shit. How was the weather in '53? Was the rough grown? What tee locations were used?

Good point and I am glad that you brought it up. Here is your answer about the weather conditions in 1953---which were typical "Open weather": "Through four holes at level par that afternoon, beneath skies that spit cold pellets of rain one moment and leaked weak rays of watery sunshine the next,---- Following a second brief burst of rain and hail, Hogan threaded a perfect drive on the 6th hole"---pages 386 and 387 of "Ben Hogan: An American Life" by James Dodson. He is describing the last round, and the notorious 6th hole. You forgot to ask one other important question----what was Hogan's physical condition. I already described the constant pain in his legs and hips that would bother him to the day he died. In addition, Hogan was in poor shape the night before the final round: "the Hawk was up and bathed and bandaged, dressed in a roll-neck shirt and a PAIR of light wool sweaters, dizzy with fever but dismissing his wife's firm opinion that he was in NO condition to play. A local physician was summoned by Miss Pettie, and Hogan agreeed to take an injection of penicillin to try to stall the advance of the infection. By hour before his 10:27 tee time, Ben's body temperature had soared to 103. 'He'd lost a lot of weight over there,' remembers John Derr, who learned about Ben's flu but chose not to mention it to his live American radio audience because HOGAN ASKED HIM NOT TO." (capitals are imine)---page 384 of the same book Occasionally, people ask me why I praise Hogan. Anyone familiar with his golf accomplishments and life has got to regard his story as one of the most amazing in all of sports. I refuse to call any one golfer "The Greatest", but I always include Hogan on my "short list" of the The Greatest of All Time. He said before he took the boat "across the pond" that he would play in the Open Championship one time only and was determined to win it, so he would have a career Grand Slam, like Gene Sarazen had done. He kept his word. He won it in 1953 and announced that he would not return to defend HIS title in 1954. Hogan was always a "man of his word". Old school.

[iacas]

And how come you left out 2007 at "Car-nasty"?? Padraig's 277 -7? What do those numbers tell you?

Dude, just ignore PEZ like the rest of us. He's perpetually stuck in about 1964 and can't seem to wrap his head around the possibility that today's golfer is a better golfer. He likes to forget that Tiger Woods hit 9-irons into the par fives at Augusta with a short, steel-shafted, steel-headed driver, and as you've noted, he left out the best winning score at the course because it suited his purposes and made Tiger Woods look lame compared to Ben Hogan.

[bogeyhitter25]

It'd be cool to see a guy like Ben Hogan (who according to YouTube hit a 4-iron 155 yards) be able to use steel clubs.

Either way I think he did fine anyway with his clubs. Wouldn't you agree?

[iacas]

It'd be cool to see a guy like Ben Hogan (who according to YouTube hit a 4-iron 155 yards) be able to use steel clubs.

Ben Hogan hit his 4I about 50 yards longer than 155 yards.

Maybe you were talking about the years right before he passed away, but I doubt it.

[PEZGolf]

It'd be cool to see a guy like Ben Hogan (who according to YouTube hit a 4-iron 155 yards) be able to use steel clubs.

If you believe everything on You Tube, then I have some bonds that I bought from Bernie Madooff that I will sell to you, real cheap.

[jorruss]

I like the passion with which people are presenting their points! Thats a nice way of observing that it's getting a bit chippy in here! This is one of those debates (like religion vs. atheism) that will never have a winner or loser.

There's no way to go back in time and give Tiger some hickory shafts and gutty balls and set him loose on a 6200 yard course with greens cut at 1/4" instead of 3/18"

We'll never have the pleasure of watching Ben Hogan swat balls with a Taylor Made R9 or roll in putts with a yip fighting long or belly putter...

[bogeyhitter25]

Ben Hogan hit his 4I about 50 yards longer than 155 yards.

Oops. My fault. Idiots on YouTube.

[Jay-Bird]

Oops. My fault. Idiots on YouTube.

That's no "full 4 iron"...

Re: Imagine Bobby Jones with a Titanium Driver I cannot fathom...

[RC]

uh... Hogan did use steel shafts and clubheads. Yeah, you probably could have shaved with his two iron.