Stack and Tilt HELP!

[umpiremark]

I recently changed over to emulate the S & T swing. I find that loading up my left side and starting my downswing by sliding my hip towards the target and finishing like "the PGA pros" has greatly improved my swing. I never could (even with many lessons) time the weight shift, shift, move, and swing of a conventional swing. S & T has helped my rythm, timing and ball striking. EXCEPT driver and fairway woods.

My question ... my reasoning for starting this thread ... is to locate any and all help on S & T questions, specifically the driver . One can read in a host of places, advice, tips, drills and get questions answered on the conventional swing.

Where is the best place for getting this type of advice and insight from fellow golfers (i.e. this Sand Trap forum)? I know there are tapes and DVD's etc., out there. I'm looking for the Q & A type help from those that went through this swing change. Specifically for drivers .

Any insight?

[iacas]

You don't tell us what you do with the driver that needs fixing.

[umpiremark]

Sorry ... when I don't hit the ball square, my face is obviously open and I push hard to the right (sometimes, 40-50 yards off line). Not a slice, but dead push right.

I need help in getting the club head square at impact. With (my version of ) S & T I know I'm square at impact with all my irons (most of the time). I just cannot seem to get the driver (and fairway woods) to go straight, consistently.

[jmoc]

Check your trunk and shoulder rotation. When you load up, if do not unwind, you'll end up coming through like your playing tennis, coming directly at the ball on a straight line, which of course is on a line to the right, and usually straight. The other cause can be not "bumping" forward (lateral) but devolving into a Reverse Pivot that adjusts your spine angle and thus your aim point moves right. S&T; works great with irons, but requires a little more work/finesse for the driver, at least for me. Good Luck, hope that helps... jmoc

[EightBlue]

with the driver, you also need ot ensure your hands are more in front of the swing than with the rest of your clubs as well

[deronsizemore]

I know two people who's teacher is Andy Plummer (one still takes lessons from him). Both of these people have told me the number one thing they always hear from others trying stack and tilt is that they have problems with the driver and fairway woods. From the two guys who have learned from the master himself, they say that driver and fairway woods are usually easier to hit using stack and tilt when you do the motion correctly.

I have no idea what your swing looks like so this is all just a general statement, but according to them, when someone has this complaint, they're usually not doing something correctly.

Maybe find a S&T; teacher in your area?

[EightBlue]

I know two people who's teacher is Andy Plummer (one still takes lessons from him). Both of these people have told me the number one thing they always hear from others trying stack and tilt is that they have problems with the driver and fairway woods. From the two guys who have learned from the master himself, they say that driver and fairway woods are usually easier to hit using stack and tilt when you do the motion correctly.

I agree. i played with the S&T; for a while and still utilize parts of it. For me, fairway woods and hybrids were the easiest to hit, followed by Driver then irons.

Most of this is driven by ball position and club length. From my experience, people who struggle with S&T; face one of two issues. 1) They dont fully committ to the stack part of it and have a hitch/mini-reverse pivot on transition. This moves the swing arc back and causes shots to be either fat or pull hooks. 2) Their lateral shift is two to the left instead of to the target. Result is an inside-outside swing and often very vicious slices. Due to the club length and ball position on the longer clubs, people have an easier time committing to the swing since they are already over the ball and don't feel like the ball is behind them. The longer club also makes it feel more natural to have your hands in front of the ball.

[cyclistgolfer]

Based on what I read on the S&T; book. First analyze your ball flight pattern. Is it a push (starts right and goes straight), push fade (starts right and fades more the right) or slice (starts from the left and slices to the right past the target)?

After you correctly identify your ball flight pattern then you can start to make some adjustments for example with push fade, the club face is open coming too much from the inside and not enough rotation. The Stack and Tilt book explains all of this. Best of luck to you hope this helps.

[uttexas]

I agree with cyclistgolfer 100%. Get the book and/or DVD set (book is cheaper). Bennett and Plummer (probably better than anyone before them) describe the geometry and physics of the the golf swing and it's effect on the golf ball. With their method, if you know the science of the swing, you can accurately correct your faults by analyzing your ball flight. Chapter 8 of the book is one of the most practical and well written sections of the book. It deals with fixing common faults.

A straight push is most likely the result of a swing path too much in to out with the clubface square to the swing path. The clubface will be open at impact (ball starts right) and square to the swing path (ball flies straight). Thus, a straight push.

A quick fix would be to close your driver clubface a bit more than you do now, which would result in a push draw. You could also try moving the ball more forward (lessens the in to out at impact)

However, the root of the problem is likely in the swing.
With the driver (we recall from our conventional swing days that you should move your hips forward a lot and fast to hit the ball square). However, with S&T; our hips are already forward (we do still move them more forward on the forward swing, but not to the extent as with the conventional swing) Make sure that your hips aren't outracing your arms. If your hips outrace your arms, you attack the ball too much from the inside, which could promote a push.

There are other fixes for too much in to out. Others include to make sure you aren't extending your spine too early in the forward swing.