What do you think of PETA?

[sp33d]

I'm not a PETA member. I'm not a vegetarian.

I was joking, however the protein isn't the same. Animals are the only thing that produces the protein that you have to have to build muscle etc.

Soybean/nuts/etc are "protein" but it lacks the enzymes and molecular structure humans need. kthxbai salad boy (kidding)

[jonnythan]

Animals are the only thing that produces the protein that you have to have to build muscle etc.

False. Learn and understand before you try to teach.

[BirdIsTheWord]

I just don't like people who put animals before people. Humans are more important, always. Animals are our minions. Those who think otherwise have bad relationships with people. Abuse is wrong, but exaltation is worse. You won't find human meat in the grocery store or on the side of the highway.

[Bo the Golfer]

I love their ads!

[sp33d]

False. Learn and understand before you try to teach.

Enlighten me to a protein source that doesn't come from animals that provides the benefits of animal proteins? I'm willing to say I'm wrong but, provide some facts behind "false".

[jonnythan]

Enlighten me to a protein source that doesn't come from animals that provides the benefits of animal proteins? I'm willing to say I'm wrong but, provide some facts behind "false".

Lima beans. Soybeans. Oatmeal. Yams. Peanuts. Etc etc etc.

If it were impossible to get "muscle building" proteins from non-animal sources, a vegan diet would be literally impossible, as the muscles would waste away. There are many thousands or even millions of completely vegan people out there who are very healthy, active, and well-built. Several of my friends are vegan, including a few who are extremely strong, dense rock climbers. There are even vegan bodybuilders out there, though they are rare since the bodybuilder personality type and vegan personality type don't have much overlap.

[bradabco]

not a PETA fan, not an OBAMA fan, let them duke it out...



G.O.P.!!!

[sp33d]

Lima beans. Soybeans. Oatmeal. Yams. Peanuts. Etc etc etc.

Strength comes from training/conditioning, size comes from training/high calorie/high fat/ high protein/carb diets, and a lot of steroids(not all but a vast majority). Its impossible to achieve the size of todays modern body builders with out steroids.

I'm strong but not big, I squat 300 plus, bench the same dead lift close to 400lbs, but I weigh 180lbs 6' tall. I'm pretty scrawny in my opinion. These foods are great but still lack a lot of things that have to be replaced with supplements and vitamins. As does meat but not to the extent that vegan foods do. So lets agree to disagree :)

[zeg]

Enlighten me to a protein source that doesn't come from animals that provides the benefits of animal proteins? I'm willing to say I'm wrong but, provide some facts behind "false".

The issue behind the "animal proteins" is primarily that of obtaining the "essential amino acids." These are the acids that your body cannot synthesize from other substances and must be obtained from food sources. Most non-animal sources are "incomplete" in the sense that they're missing some of these. There are a few complete non-animal protein sources, notably quinoa, a formerly obscure grain that has become quite popular lately. Vegan or not (I'm not!), I highly recommend trying to find it -- you can cook it like rice and it's a really nice alternative that provides much higher nutrient content than rice. It's a great quick way to add some variety to meals.

The following website claims that it's "easy" to meet protein requirements in a vegan diet. I'm not sure I buy that, but they have a decent set of references and some good discussion of the issues so it's worth reading if you take it with a grain of salt (and/or a rasher of bacon). In particular, I find the bits about pregnancy, lactation, and children's diet to be of particularly questionable wisdom because the possible side effects of a fat, protein, or vitamin deficiency are so serious. I don't mean to say it can't be done, but I think you need to take nutrient planning extremely, extremely seriously in those situations. Using animal sources seems like a cheap insurance to ensure your child's health. http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/protein.htm There are also issues of other nutrients. Vitamin B12 deficiency is frequently pointed out as a problem with vegan diets, although this is rather hotly contested by proponents of those diets. I don't have any especially deep insights into the truth of the matter, so I'll just point to another page that discusses "vegan" sources of B12. It's interesting to note that the sources they cite are mostly yeasts, which some more extreme vegans might not consider plant sources. The body's use of B12 is such that it takes a very long time to actually run out (5-20 years according to a google search). On the one hand, that argues that it's not a grave concern because even minimal sources of the vitamin will be sufficient; on the other hand, it means that you might find out 20 years later that you've got a problem in your diet. For a child, again, this concerns me and I would think very hard about the cost/benefit analysis. http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/b12.htm So, despite the issues of balancing an animal-free diet, proteins really are protein. There are different types in animal foods just as there are different types in plant foods. The best way to be sure to get everything you need is to eat a varied diet. For me, that includes animal foods. I reject the idea that it is inherently wrong to kill an animal for food, but I do try to stick to sources that treat their stock more humanely to the extent that I can. Finally, screw PETA.

[jonnythan]

These foods are great but still lack a lot of things that have to be replaced with supplements and vitamins. As does meat but not to the extent that vegan foods do. So lets agree to disagree :)

No, I won't agree to disagree, because your statement was flat-out wrong. Vegetable/fruit/legume proteins are not lacking in anything, and animal proteins are not needed to build muscles.

That is a simple fact. "You dont eat meat your brain melts" "Animals are the only thing that produces the protein that you have to have to build muscle etc." "Soybean/nuts/etc are "protein" but it lacks the enzymes and molecular structure humans need." These statements are all uncategorically wrong. They are completely false. Erroneous. Misleading. Uninformed. Fallacious. I think I'm out of adjectives, but hopefully you get the picture. It's clear that you're somewhat misinformed about nutritional topics, especially those concerning vegetarian and vegan diets. Again I suggest to you that you learn more about the topics before you attempt to teach others about them. Verify your statements and learn from those more knowledgeable than yourself.

[zeg]

Just came across this pic... very relevant to the discussion at hand

http://www.flickr.com/photos/passive...61392/sizes/o/

[sp33d]

No, I won't agree to disagree, because your statement was flat-out wrong. Vegetable/fruit/legume proteins are not lacking in anything, and animal proteins are not needed to build muscles.

Ok the brain melting thing was a joke.

Find me a plant that produces usable/viable B-12... You wont. But I'm sure B-12 isn't really that important... A lot of what I wrote you take out of context, I was using body building as an example (hence the "etc.") Sure there are "body builders" that don't eat meat, wow, That's a great argument. Oh heres a website http://www.veganbodybuilding.com/?page=bios those guys are sure huge! 3 guys that I would actually look at and think of them as body builders. wow. Sure its not impossible but what isn't. If you go to almost any vegan website they all take supplements to "supplement" the loss of meat in their diets. It's not rocket science. So basically if you have unlimited funds to feed your self all vegan proteins and buy supplements to sustain health sure its a healthy life style, but the fact is there are things meat has things that plants don't. Plus you have to consider the choices some vegetarians choose, some will eat eggs, and drink milk, whey (made from milk), and so on.

[jonnythan]

Find me a plant that produces usable/viable B-12... You wont.

I only started responding to you because of the completely incorrect statements you made about proteins. I'm not interested in bringing B-12 into this now. If you start a new thread about vitamin deficiencies, perhaps I might join into it.

I was only debunking your factually incorrect statement about animal vs vegetable proteins. Let's not stray too far off-topic by bringing vitamins into it as well. I'm not interested in turning this into a complete discussion of the nutritional completeness of vegan diets :)

[zeg]

Let's not stray too far off-topic by bringing vitamins into it as well. I'm not interested in turning this into a complete discussion of the nutritional completeness of vegan diets :)

Oops, my bad...

[sp33d]

Sorry but its contained in the meat so technically part of the meat.



But I'm growing weary of this topic, so your right. I'm right, it all dependent on what nutritionist you talk to.

Lets be friends again

[RocketSauce]

i cant stand the activists who put more importance on animals lives than they do human life. like that show on TV, " Whale Wars ". the captain " Paul Watson " is ready to risk his crews lives in order to save a whale. i mean, im all for saving the whales, but i wouldnt risk my life for one thats for sure.

[Voiceontapex]

my gf used to work for peta, i think she still does at like concerts and stuff in their tents they have, but its pretty funny cause i am a meat cutter, when she started dating me i made her eat a nice delicious ribeye and she loved it and asked me "why did i not eat this for so many years its delicious" hahaha

she NOW eats meat after i showed her 1. how delicious it tastes and 2. that animal was going to die anyway, and if you go to a store and do not buy it, they will more than likely toss it away which meant the animal died for nothing lol

but she doesnt agree with the way some of them are treated which i guess i can see somewhat......i guess....they were put on this earth for a reason