Neutral Grip vs Strong Grip

[Odogesq]

Lol, didn't even see the date.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Odogesq

Lol, didn't even see the date.

They're a bit smaller than they probably should be, yeah. :(

[tkahlm]

Originally Posted by cutshot878

Try keeping your left hand grip "strong" but weakening your right hand grip. By weakening the right hand that means you want to turn it more counterclockwise (left). It will feel stronger but this is actually weakening the grip. This will give you a more neutral grip. You want to keep your grip strong or at least neutral for the short irons and gradually weaken your grip for the long irons and hybrid and 3 wood and driver. It mostly depends on what your miss is. If you're hooking it try weakening your grip. Slicing it, try making it stronger. I think if you want to shape the ball (fade or draw) the easiest way is to modify your grip. . Practice it at the range. Watch out for the really super weak grip. I tend to shank some of those. It is virtually impossible to hook it with a weak grip. You can stilll hit it from the inside but the clubface will be open. A good technique if water is on the left. Even if you block it and miss the green, at least you ain't wet. The same if there's water right and the block or push is the danger shot. Really strengthen your grip and even start it over the water and watch it draw beautifully. The ball will hook if your grip is strong enough. And you take it inside. Good Luck.

Actually many players with strong grips on the tour draw it, just like many players on the tour with a strong grip cut it. There is no rule to ball flight based on the strength of your group. When creating your own grip don't about the 2 knuckle rule but the strength of your grip is most likely going to cause what line the golf ball starts on. The plane dictates the spin of the ball.

[saevel25]

how the grip effects the ball depends solely on the player and his swing. Some players have to play a strong grip to draw the ball, some players like Tiger woods could hit a draw with a neutral grip.

Also, i wouldn't recommend changing the grip for the shot at hand. Most people can get away with an aligment shift and altering the swing a tad to get the shot shape the want. But if it works for you go for it.

Personally i like to see golfers try a neutral grip work, then tweek it stronger or weaker if they need to depending on there needs.

[tkahlm]

Originally Posted by saevel25

how the grip effects the ball depends solely on the player and his swing. Some players have to play a strong grip to draw the ball, some players like Tiger woods could hit a draw with a neutral grip.

Also, i wouldn't recommend changing the grip for the shot at hand. Most people can get away with an aligment shift and altering the swing a tad to get the shot shape the want. But if it works for you go for it.

Personally i like to see golfers try a neutral grip work, then tweek it stronger or weaker if they need to depending on there needs.

Some players also have to play a strong grip to hit a cut like Paul Azinger. You said Tiger can hit a draw with a neutral grip, there are many tour pros hot consistently hit a draw with a weaker grip like I said in the post before it depends more on more than just the grip. Ive also had a strong grip and hit a draw, I am switching over to a cut with the same grip and have noticed a lot of improvement.

[cutshot878]

After 3 weeks of practice, I can consistently hit short irons, mid and long irons with a strong left hand grip. By aligning my left arm with the club shaft at address (with the irons) it has made the strong left hand grip (3 knuckles) feel a lot less strange (after 33 years with a neutral left hand grip). I had to go back to a Vardon grip because the interlocking grip doesn't feel right with the strong left hand grip.  I have used the Vardon in the past so it wasn't too hard to re-learn it. Aligning my left arm with the club shaft (on the irons, I don't do that with the driver)  does de-loft (slight forward press) the club slightly. However with the hybrids, the 3 wood and ESPECIALLY the driver, the strong left hand grip is a no go---duck hook every time. With a weak left hand grip (holding the club more in the palm) with the woods I can hit a power fade---the ball starts out a little left of straight. Or the drive goes pretty straight when I time my hip rotation nicely. On the downswing my arms are completely passive. I just think about clearing my left hip. If I clear too early and violently I get the big push. I have actually been able to hit an occasional draw with the weak left hand grip on the driver. On the downswing I make an arm swing and don't try to clear my hips. I basically aim the butt of the club at the ball on the downswing while trying not to move my hips. If I can do it smoothly I have been able to draw it that way. Not as powerful (without the hips, the hips are still turning of course but they don't FEEL like they're turning) but I can still knock it 250. The power fade goes about 260. Hard not to hit the Taylormade Superfast 2.0 Driver that far. Downwind I can hit it 275. Its been very nice reaching these 500 yard par 5's in two. 43 years old but hitting the ball further than when I was a flexible thirty. This new juiced equipment is fun. Can't wait to get a Rocketballz driver next year

[Backhoe]

We're all built differently. Some people will raise their arm straight up and the thumb will naturally want to be up but for others it may be more toward the 3 o:clock position. The idea is to adopt a grip that will naturally return the clubface somewhat square to the target line at impact. If you otherwise had no problem with their teaching method grant your instructor the courtesy of talking with them first. Try to determine what they had in mind in moving your grip to a neutral position. It is true that for every action there's a reaction and they may have had one in mind but you responded in a different way than they expected.

BTW, I'm normally a bit on the weak side of neutral but change the strength of my grip from very weak to very strong depending on the shot-shape I'm looking for. That accompanied by opening and closing the stance and clubface at address will give a golfer a wide range of slot selection. A few weeks ago a gentleman at the range asked me if I knew how to hit a deliberate slice. I showed him, hitting 45 degrees left of the target and having the ball slice back to the green (easy). Then I demonstrated taking the ball in the other direction with a high hook (hard). These are shots you don't want to have to hit as they're really low percentage. Better to not get in that position but nice to be able to deal with it should one get an unlucky bounce, the match is on the line, and there's little choice but to take the chance.

[cutshot878]

Not sure if that was addressed to me, Backhoe. I don't have an instructor so no need to grant one a courtesy. Only lesson I ever got was the first one at the age of 10 in 1981. I was taught the grip (by a geniune PGA Club Pro) and given a bucket of balls. It was a life-changing experience. I never played baseball again, let's put it that way. Without an instructor, I was breaking 80 by the age of 15 with my homemade swing. Granted it wasn't a very consistent or reliable swing. With that ugly  (casting OTT) swing, I  managed to shoot 70 in a junior tournament in Jacksonville when I was sixteen. Of course David Duval was playing that day and shot 67. He was 14. He was driving 500 yard par 5's in two at that age. Early bloomer, physically. Big kid. Pretty amazing. His dad was a PGA Club Professional (Timucana Country Club) who gave him countless instruction. Taught him that powerful strong grip and rotary (body) swing.  I do meet knowledgeable players from time to time and they have helped me progress. You tube has been helpful and videos of my swing. I have always been an autodidact. Self taught. The best lesson I've had in awhile was going to the 2nd Stage of Q-School a few weeks ago (Brooksville, Florida location) and watching Robert Karlsson and Michael Letzig and Arjun Atwal and Billly Hurley III and Daniel Chopra and some of the young guns from the Hooter's and E-Golf tour.  Learned a lot that day. They attack the ball from the inside. And they look like they take it back fairly inside and stay very connected. Beautiful to watch.  All their swings looked the same to me---I really don't think there's a lot of variation. I don't believe any of them were "stack and tilt"---whatever that means. Didn't see any one-planers (like Matt Kuchar) either. All their swings looked pretty modern. No reverse C finishes. No Tommy Gainey's or Bubbas out there that day.

[Backhoe]

cutshot878 - No, sorry. I thought I'd hit 'reply' to the original post. My apologies. I must have been having delusions of competency again.

[cutshot878]

Grip update:  I'm currently using a neutral left hand grip and neutral right with the irons when I want to hit a cut or fade. When I need to draw it, I strengthen the grip. With woods and driver I can't use a strong grip----diving duck hooks.  Weak side of neutral grip for the woods and driver.

[Ole_Tom_Morris]

Some comments. Over in another thread a member posted links to fascinating online articles by a Japanese-American golf teacher in Hawaii, that explained in great detail the kinesiology and anatomy of swing mechanics including an article on the grip. The thesis was that the teaching of a weak or neutral grip is a virus that has infected golf teaching since Hogan's Five Fundamentals and continued under the influence of Ledbetter. Most pro golfers, he says, use a strong grip, "most" meaning 70% or more. As one who prefers a neutral grip, I disagree. Not with what he said about Hogan and Ledbetter, but with his preference for what I call a "left over top" grip. If one has weak forearms or weak shoulder muscles or a weak left side generally then I think the "left over top" grip is useful. Otherwise, maybe not. A neutral grip though gives a feeling of balance and symmetry between left and right. It seems more natural to use the medial deltids on the left side rather than the rear deltoids on the down swing -- because it's not only a question of grip and whether the stronger forearm muscles are used in a "left over top" grip versus a neutral grip, but affects the delts and lats too. I think it may affect the point at which the shoulders turn into the ball as well. May make for an arm swing versus a shouder swing. These are just my inchoate thoughts based on feel, that I want to thrw out for discussion. It was said above that a strong grip CURES a slice. I disagree with that. A strong grip can compensate for a slice, but it's only a patch and not a cure, unless the left hand is so weak that it collapses on ball contact.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Ole_Tom_Morris

It was said above that a strong grip CURES a slice. I disagree with that. A strong grip can compensate for a slice, but it's only a patch and not a cure, unless the left hand is so weak that it collapses on ball contact.

The odd thing about that old wive's tale about a strong grip is that they're based in the old ball flight laws, mostly. Most people with a strong grip will do more to "hold off" the face and start the ball RIGHT of target (face pointing right), while those with a weak grip will often start the ball LEFT of target (often with the path farther left).

I agree that a weak grip is not suitable for most people. Stronger grips tend to have less #3 roll and thus allow the shaft to line up later. Weak grips are more likely to roll #3 and line the shaft up prematurely (Key #3, not directly related to accumulator #3).

[rb224315]

As with so many other things in life, major failures in the golf swing are almost always due to multiple factors.  In this gentleman's case, I'm guessing the instructor started addressing them in the natural order and would solve the different swing problems one at a time.

I didn't see a picture or video of his grip, so I don't know exactly how strong his original grip was.  I've seen guys (including my bro-in-law) whose grips are so strong that their right thumb is on the back of the shaft such that the thumbnail is facing opposite the target at address.  When this is the case, the player will have to start with a grip change on the road to eventually make good shots.  Usually the player who has this extremely strong grip is attempting to lift the ball rather than pinch or trap it.  This mental image tends to hinder swing improvement.

When a golfer has a great swing, a slight change to one swing component will be discernible.  Ben Hogan made a grip change and for him it made a difference.  He started with a great swing and improved it with a small change.  Seldom do duffers like me go from spraying the ball all over the place to shooting 70 by making some single, minor change.  High-handicappers usually have multiple swing problems and in order to see significant improvement will have to address more than one of them.  One minor tweak won't turn a frog into a prince, no offense intended since I'm still closer to frog than prince.  :-)

[Brakkus]

This thread I found very interesting as I have played a stronger grip for some time. When I hit it well according to good mechanics,great result. As a one plane model and based on grip recommendations sliding towards a stronger grip I went in that direction. Perhaps I overdid it but in the backswing I always felt cramped with my arms at times,not free enough. Obviously knowledge is a good thing and this is a flaw of a strong grip grip getting too inside. I also hit some big hooks but could also hit blocks and push slices on occasion,now I know why.

I went back to my plane truth book and Hardy recommends both neutral and strong. So I experimented with a 2 knuckle left hand grip more weaker in fact my left hand had 3 knuckles on show and I got my thumb along the side of the shaft quite easily. I always struggled to take out my right side as I felt it was having too much influence in my swing. The results of this change have been startling. I feel I have finally married the essential parts of my swing together. I also read that a stronger grip can cause fat shots which used to affect my swing as I would catch it heavy too. That issue is now gone. The affect on ballflight has been staggering to say the least. Not one slice out of a hundred balls I hit yesterday at the range. A couple of gentle pushes,a couple of push draws not a bad shot to have in your locker,shows my path is still coming from the inside nicely. I hit a lot of nice draws and one wild hook.

[kbakken]

This is very interesting indeed.  And like others have said, different things work for different people.  However, has anyone taken a look at Shawn Clement's Youtube videos?  He actually has some great stuff on this.

First one that comes to mind would be "Weak Versus Strong Grip".  In which a neutral grip looks good statically, but in a dynamic swing as you have more lag and the hands pass the ball first, the grip needs to be stronger to square it up (I am paraphrasing here, but the video does a much better job).

He also has a 3 part series on working the ball with "Draw and Fade" parts 1, 2, and 3.  Here we see that a draw and fade is not only related to club face angle, but also the swing arch and ball position in stance.

I can say this has personally worked very well for me.  I have a 2.5-3 knuckle grip for draw, and a 2 knuckle grip for fade, and can compress the ball beautifully both ways.  Distance improves with a stronger grip as well.

[cutshot878]

Originally Posted by tkahlm

Actually many players with strong grips on the tour draw it, just like many players on the tour with a strong grip cut it. There is no rule to ball flight based on the strength of your group. When creating your own grip don't about the 2 knuckle rule but the strength of your grip is most likely going to cause what line the golf ball starts on. The plane dictates the spin of the ball.

There might be something to that. I've been able to hit some very controllable draws lately (after changing my takeaway to much more inside, a more rotary backswing) with my driver with a strong grip. This same grip a few months ago (where I was much more upright and in which I took the club back more outside) would have resulted in a disgusting duck hook. My grip has evolved into a much stronger one over the past few months as I have tried to return to drawing the ball. I  still go to the weak side of neutral if I need a big push fade (off the tee) on a dog leg right. I see no problem with adjusting grip to modify ball flight. I believe it can be done effectively if practiced enough.

[boil3rmak3r]

I could be wrong, but I've come to believe that the grip that works best for any golfer is based on an understanding of where the back of their left hand is aimed at impact. You basically want your grip to aim in the same direction (for a straight shot assume a down-the-line swing path) at set up. For me, changing my wrist's have improved my swing but has also necessitated a change in grip. I've flattened my left wrist at the top and got it turned over more at impact. For that reason, I use a weaker grip. For me, and me only, it has eliminated the big misses left. All else being equal, changing the grip strength requires a counter adjustment to wrist angles at impact to produce the same result. So, wherever your swing puts your left wrist at impact should drive what grip to use.

[softjones]

funny I'm dealing with the same issue. I golfed a lot 13 years ago. I took a juco class for fun, was hovering around shooting 100, couldn't really score with irons, but could bomb the ball off the tee. Had a nice draw too.

I just started playing again last November. I tried starting from scratch via google, learned a neutral grip and eventually began playing well. I've shot low 90's for the past month. But I've pretty much had to ditch the woods and driver. I couldn't figure out my insane slice off the tee and random snap hooks. My best drives that actually went straight were only going about 240. My irons also had a push fade. I thought back to how I used to swing and realized I used to use a strong grip. I always thought that a strong grip was a crutch because I didn't feel comfortable with a "real" golf grip. Well just the other day I tried a strong grip and am just absolutely crushing a draw. Golf feels normal again.

Everyone is different. Grips match swings.

Also realized moving from strong to weak I can hit draws and fades. I'm sure others are a 180 opposite but..pretty cool.