Is it My Club, My Swing, or My Ball?

[putty]

This is my first year playing this wonderful game but one thing I am having a lot of trouble with is getting my chips to stay on the green or near the hole. I am using a TM R7 SW with a steel shaft. When I hit my irons onto the green it seems to stay pretty close to where it lands, but when I chip on with my SW, it just keeps on rolling.....For now I'm also using cheap maxfli practice balls. Is that the problem? Or is it my swing? I think I've been taught correctly; feet close together, weight on front foot, ball near back foot, no wrist hinge, consistent smooth swing. I've gotten better at aiming but its impossible to chip when the pin is on the front of the green because they just keep rolling right past it. Please help! Thanks!

[tjy355]

It is most likely, your technique.

[grizfan]

there might be a matter of definitions here, too.
I consider a chip to be a shot where you hit the ball to a spot on the green with the intention of it rolling the rest of the way. Depending on the distance and lie, you may want to hit a shot that covers 1/2 of the distance in the air, then rolls the last 1/2, or you may need a chip shot that covers 1/4 of the distance in the air, then rolls for the remaining 3/4 of the distance to the hole.
I consider a pitch shot to be almost entirely in the air, say if you had to carry a short shot over a sand trap.

Given your description, it sounds like you're talking about pitching the ball with your sand wedge. Here's a couple of considerations. First, unless you have no choice, consider the chip and run. The less time the ball spends in the air when around the green, the better. But, if you are in a position where you *need* to make a pitch shot, remember to "hit down" on the ball. It sounds like you're putting yourself in the position to do this, but be sure to mentally commit to this process. There are several good lessons on this available online. By hitting down on the ball, you let the club do the work, which includes putting spin on the ball to stop it on the green.

Finally, If you need to look at your gear, start with the ball you're playing. Try a few shots while practicing with a different ball. Some balls are designed to maximize this aspect of the game.

But... Definitely look at your technique first, especially the "hitting down" part of your swing. Practice that and you should see some improvement. Good luck!

[gibbous]

In my experience many recreational golfers expect far too much bite on shots around the green like chips and short pitches. There just isn't enough clubhead speed in these types of shots to get the ball to spin enough to stop on a dime.

Even pros have to make a swing that takes the club up to about waist level before they can impart enough spin on the ball to make it check after just a bounce or two, and that's pretty much only when playing a big flop shot or the low 1-hop checker from 40+ yards out on the fairway. If you watch someone like Tiger chip, the ball will spin enough to dance around a little on the first couple bounces but it only slows down some, there will always be some run-out.

[Righty to Lefty]

In my experience many recreational golfers expect far too much bite on shots around the green like chips and short pitches.

Then you've never used a Callaway MD groove wedge. I get hop and stop on greenside chips with RANGE balls with a new one. Your technique could be faulty but if you are striking the golf ball first then the turf afterwards you should be able to control the spin enough to keep the ball from roling off the green. If you can make ball first contact from any lie you should be able to control the spin. Believe it or not, over time your wedges and irons will wear out and need to be replaced. Especially wedges which probably need to be replaced every year at least. Grooves are only used from the rough or in wet conditions but over the time the face of your clubs will basically become smooth and that will create shots that spin less and can't be controlled as easily.

[gibbous]

I've never seen anybody put a huge amount of spin on a chip no matter what kind of equipment they're using. Why don't I see pros doing this every week? Maybe we're talking about two different types of shots, but I just don't see how this is possible for anyone, let alone reasonable for a high handicapper to expect to be able to do consistently.

I chip best when I can pick out the spot I want the ball to land and find the proper trajectory for the ball to hit the ground so it releases the way I want it to, then match the club to those two variables. I don't rely on the spin to keep the ball from rolling off the green on a chip shot, I just don't hit it that hard...

[michaeljames92]

A-your ball is a practice rock-you're are not going to get much spin with that. If you want spin get a Pro V1, Nike Platinum etc. They are high spin balls.
B-Your Tm wedge is not designed with very good grooves. If you use a spin milled Vokey or Callaway MD wedge you will get spin.
C-A chip done, even with these things will not bounce and stop, it will at least roll out a little
D-Perhaps you are not using the right technique

If you change A,B and C you are more likely going to see a big difference in spin. even with a half decent chipping/pitching technique you will get a little spin.

[Righty to Lefty]

I've never seen anybody put a huge amount of spin on a chip no matter what kind of equipment they're using. Why don't I see pros doing this every week? Maybe we're talking about two different types of shots, but I just don't see how this is possible for anyone, let alone reasonable for a high handicapper to expect to be able to do consistently.

I should elaborate that I use a 64* Cally MD groove wedge and from a CLEAN lie right out the box it is very possible to get hop and stop action on green side chips even with range balls. I'm not talking about pitch shots I'm talkin about chips. A Callaway 64* will give you that action for about 300 shots or so and then they become more sane with the spin. I couldn't believe it until I experienced it myself. I learned to control spin with all of my clubs because of that club because literally the ball was sucking back 30 feet. I had just switched from right to left handed golf and this was the first wedge that I bought. You don't see it on tour alot because the shot isn't necessary most of the time. The best option is to get the ball on the putting surface and rolling as quickly as possible. Don't think just because a pro is greenside that they are using a wedge because it is known that Tiger chips a lot of shots with an eight iron. I can be done but it is not needed most of the time I promise.

[David in FL]

To answer the question, it's likely all 3, with a majority of the blame going to your technique.

Now, having said that, if you want to really drop strokes off that handicap, stop trying to spin your chips around the green. Grab your pitching wedge and learn to hit a little bump and run that gets on the green quickly and rolls like a putt. You'll find it's much easier to control and will get you in the hole in fewer strokes more often than not.

[imtomtomim]

why don't you just play the kind of shot that you have? if you're trying to land the ball at the hole 20 feet away and then it rolls out another 20 feet, why don't you just land it shorter and let it roll? play to what's happening

I really don't see the point of making that skid and stop chip. there are way too many things to consider, firmness of green, stickniess of grass, hills and breaks and such along with how well you're gonna hit a low running spinner. Thinking about spin is good, but in my opinion, forcing it or trying to make it come it is a no no. Play to what shot you're making.

Don't worry about your equipment, it's fine. I've never played square grooves and play using a discount ball. Learn what the result of your action is and play to it.

[putty]

there might be a matter of definitions here, too.

Can you give me an example of "hitting down" on the ball? Thanks

Then you've never used a Callaway MD groove wedge. I get hop and stop on greenside chips with RANGE balls with a new one. Your technique could be faulty but if you are striking the golf ball first then the turf afterwards you should be able to control the spin enough to keep the ball from roling off the green. If you can make ball first contact from any lie you should be able to control the spin. Believe it or not, over time your wedges and irons will wear out and need to be replaced. Especially wedges which probably need to be replaced every year at least. Grooves are only used from the rough or in wet conditions but over the time the face of your clubs will basically become smooth and that will create shots that spin less and can't be controlled as easily.

How can you tell if your wedges need to be replaced? I doubt mine do, they are only about 2 months old.

I've never seen anybody put a huge amount of spin on a chip no matter what kind of equipment they're using. Why don't I see pros doing this every week? Maybe we're talking about two different types of shots, but I just don't see how this is possible for anyone, let alone reasonable for a high handicapper to expect to be able to do consistently.

I don't need a huge amount of spin, just a little more preferably. Say the pin is at the front of the green, even if I chipped it to the first cm of the green (the minimum distance), it would roll right past the flag...

A-your ball is a practice rock-you're are not going to get much spin with that. If you want spin get a Pro V1, Nike Platinum etc. They are high spin balls.

What if I was able to get nicer balls but not a different club? Would that help at least a little?

I should elaborate that I use a 64* Cally MD groove wedge and from a CLEAN lie right out the box it is very possible to get hop and stop action on green side chips even with range balls. I'm not talking about pitch shots I'm talkin about chips. A Callaway 64* will give you that action for about 300 shots or so and then they become more sane with the spin. I couldn't believe it until I experienced it myself. I learned to control spin with all of my clubs because of that club because literally the ball was sucking back 30 feet. I had just switched from right to left handed golf and this was the first wedge that I bought. You don't see it on tour alot because the shot isn't necessary most of the time. The best option is to get the ball on the putting surface and rolling as quickly as possible. Don't think just because a pro is greenside that they are using a wedge because it is known that Tiger chips a lot of shots with an eight iron. I can be done but it is not needed most of the time I promise.

Most of the time you are right, the ball can just be rolled right up to the pin. However, what do I do for the times that is not possible? (Like the scenario I made above)

To answer the question, it's likely all 3, with a majority of the blame going to your technique.

Please explain. I'm a newbie hear so what does a "little bump and run mean"?

why don't you just play the kind of shot that you have? if you're trying to land the ball at the hole 20 feet away and then it rolls out another 20 feet, why don't you just land it shorter and let it roll? play to what's happening

Again, the scenario I made above. I'm say 10 yards from the green and the pin is at the front. Even if I chip it the minimum distance, on the first cm of the green, my ball just rolls right past the pin...

Thanks all for the responses. I got lots of variety in them so I'm still kinda confused

[gibbous]

I'm say 10 yards from the green and the pin is at the front. Even if I chip it the minimum distance, on the first cm of the green, my ball just rolls right past the pin...

In this scenario, to fly the ball all the way to the green and stop it at a pin that is only a couple paces on, you need to put a lot of spin on it. In most cases that also means hitting it high so it lands softly, and that makes it a shot with less margin for error.

If you don't have a lot of long rough or any other obstacles between you and the green, the bump and run mentioned before is usually a safer shot. That's where you hit the ball much lower and intentionally bounce it through the grass in front of the green to take some speed off before it gets there. It takes practice to anticpate how the ball will react off of whatever you hit it into, but once you figure it out using the countours of the ground around the green to your advantage can be a lot of fun.

[grizfan]

Can you give me an example of "hitting down" on the ball? Thanks

http://golf.about.com/cs/tipslessons...downdammit.htm http://www.lifeintherough.com/2007/0...n-on-the-ball/ http://www.grouchygolf.com/2006/05/g...ith-irons.html There are others, but this should give you a good idea of what this means. Also, the bump and run rocks! http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...45511284758347 - this video does a nice job of illustrating the point. Get good at this, and you could really improve your scores...

[Righty to Lefty]

A wedge should spin a lil too much when you first get it if you are using today's agressive grooves that typically come in today's wedges Callaway MD, Vokey Spin Milled, Taylormade Z, Clevenland Zip Grooves. Chrome finish on a wedge reduces spin and you will not likely ever see a pro use a chrome wedge. (the pitching wedge that comes with their irons doesn't count) From a clean lie (in the fairway and the fairway is dry) the raw, vintage, or oil can finish creates great surface frictiion for the ball to press against this creates the spin ( GROOVES ONLY CREATE ABOUT 2% OF THE SPIN) Grooves are only used in wet conditions or in the rough and the only purpose of grooves is to clear debris from the hitting surface to allow the ball to contact the clubface. Over time the clubface is basically being sandblasted and becomes smooth and looses friction, so shots that were stickin and stoppin will start to roll out more and more no matter how well it is struck. Most people can wear out a wedge in about a year depending on how much you play or practice.

[sp33d]

Here's my view,

1, "set" sand wedges aren't really sandwedges, if you want a real sand wedge, buy one that is a true sand wedge. IE Vokey, Clevland, etc.

2, you are using a 1 piece range ball (I think) you need to ditch those they offer no stopping power.

3, a chip will not stop it will roll out, you don't have the club head speed to generate back spin (like others have said).

4, learn to love the roll, because you aren't going to stop the ball in the hole, its better to embrace the roll and get it closer to the cup...

[bunkerputt]

This is weird. I have the opposite problem with my chips. They tend to check too soon, so I have to fly the ball low up to the pin, two hops and stop. The reason is that I tend to pinch the ball a lot on chips and even catch it the tiniest hair thin. This makes it spin like crazy. If you want more spin, try this:

1. Open your clubface. This raises the leading edge causing you to hit it a tiny bit thin with the same swing. It really just pinches the lower half of the ball with the leading edge of the club.

2. Clean lie. No grass behind the ball.

3. Good ball with a soft cover. Pretty much anything urethane. Pro V1x's have a bit softer cover than Pro V1s. Callaway's are extremely soft.

4. Sharp box-grooves. Make sure you get an older club with box grooves.

5. Use some wrist hinge and accelerate a bit on the downswing to hold your lag. Keep the face open through impact to avoid shutting it down and lowering your loft, and consequently your spin rate.

How you stand isn't as important for spin as it is for contact. Choose a weight distribution and ball position that gives you solid contact, and spin will take care of itself. Try to feel athletic, like you're tossing a lawn dart onto the green.

[pittpanther]

I'm actually not angry, just frustrated.

Too many different ideas about what is a "chip" versus what is a "pitch." I really don't know what is correct - I will talk about what I learned.

I was taught that a "chip" typically uses a 7I (can adjust depending on flight versus roll), and is basically executed with a putting stroke. The idea is to get over any junk between you and the green, and then roll out to the hole. This chip concept only works when you're pretty close to the green. You can't "chip" over a greenside bunker, for example (well, maybe you can, if the pin is waaaay on the other side of the green).

Any shot that is executed with more of a traditional stroke, is a "pitch," not a chip. I was taught that the pitch is executed with weight on front foot, feet close together, etc.

Using my definitions, I think (not positive) that the OP is talking about executing a pitch - in particular a pitch where the pin is close to the front edge of the green. Imagine he's only 10 yards from the pin, the pin is 6 feet from the edge of the green, but between ball and pin is heavy rough, or a slope towards a bunker - enough junk that a bump-n-run is not feasible. He wants to get the ball in the air, and stop it quickly. What happens is he successfully crosses the junk, lands on the green, and promptly rolls to the other side of the green, leaving a super-long putt (maybe even 3-putt territory for a high handicapper). Very frustrating given that his approach left him only 10 yards from the hole!

What's the technique for this example?

[Cornbread]

This is my first year playing this wonderful game but one thing I am having a lot of trouble with is getting my chips to stay on the green or near the hole. I am using a TM R7 SW with a steel shaft. When I hit my irons onto the green it seems to stay pretty close to where it lands, but when I chip on with my SW, it just keeps on rolling.....For now I'm also using cheap maxfli practice balls. Is that the problem? Or is it my swing? I think I've been taught correctly; feet close together, weight on front foot, ball near back foot, no wrist hinge, consistent smooth swing. I've gotten better at aiming but its impossible to chip when the pin is on the front of the green because they just keep rolling right past it. Please help! Thanks!

It could be all of the above!