Negative effects of going from stiff to x-stiff?

[ControlJunkie]

Need some opinions on a little situation I have. Please forgive the wall of text, I just feel like I've gotta explain the entire situation

I've finally gotten my swing grooved off the tee box, and I'm hitting my driver and 3W very well, and getting really good distance out of both. Since changing some things in my swing & grip, I've gotten more comfortable everytime I go out. As I've gotten more comfortable, I've started to swing harder, and I'm still going nice and straight. I went to the range the range Saturday afternoon to prepare for my round yesterday morning. After I hit driver a few times, I started to notice that my ball flight was a little higher than my liking. There definitely wasnt any ballooning, the trajectory was really nice, it was just higher than my liking. I had my Str8-Fit set at 10.5° at that point, so I cranked it down to 9.5° and still thought the flight was a little high. I then decide to take it down to 7.5°, just to see the results. The trajectory was ok, but still higher than what I think 7.5° should be.

After processing all that, and setting it back to 10.5°, I started to wonder if going with a x-stiff might be the answer. I like the UST Axiv Core that came in it, it feels really solid. For some reason, I really like how the driver is dialed in at 10.5°, I just want it a tad bit lower. If I swapped in a x-stiff Axiv Core, are there any adverse negative effects that I'd see? Would I lose a lot of distance? I dont know my swing speed, and for some reason, I really dont wanna know. I'd much rather see the results by seeing how the ball flies rather than basing it solely on numbers. I guess in my mind, if I got an x-stiff and then set the driver at 10.5°, it might just be perfect. Is that way off base?

Thanks in advance! Sorry for the volume of backstory here!!!

[imtomtomim]

actually, the stiffer the shaft, the higher your ball flight is going to be. Most likely it's your launch angle. If you look at a picture of impact, the clubhead face is actually closed more and the shaft is shaped in a c with the open side facing the target. A stiffer shaft would get you less closing of the face which = more loft at impact. The benefit of a stiffer shaft is less shaft flex which is a bit easier to control. (but if you don't have the swing speed, it could actually close and then rebound and open up before you hit the ball)

What kind of ball flight are you getting? can you tell if it's actually a spinner balloon shot? you could be launching up on it too much as well.

Also, where on the face are you hitting? I've seen some articles telling people that the sweet spot of the driver is in the upper half which is not exactly correct. The sweetspot is almost always in the middle. They tell you to hit it higher on the face because a mishit on the high part of the face would still give you a shot that would go off and carry a good ways.

I actually play a driver that hits way too high for me but if you could work on a control stinger shot, it would bring your trajectory lower. Swinging in tempo will also give you a lower ball flight than one where you "fire from the top"

[ControlJunkie]

That's the first time I've ever heard that stiffer flex = higher ball flight. Check out this link . I've always been told that a stiffer flex will bring the flight down some. Now, when I hit my old 9.5° Sumo 5000 (R-flex Diamana), the ball flight is much higer than my new Dymo with the stiff UST.

I know kickpoints come into play here as well, but I'd assume if I switched to a x-stiff version of my current shaft, the kickpoint should be pretty similar because it's the same model shaft, just different flex.

It's definitely not a ballooning typed flight, the shape is really nice, it's just a little higher than I'd like. High enough that I'd worry about it on a windy day, but definitely not ballooning. I used to do that and it drove me insane :)

As far as impact, I checked the face, and I have lines of ink on the face that rubbed off from where I marked lines on the ball with a Sharpie. Most of them run pretty much straight up and down, from the center of the face, up to about 1/4" to 1/2" from the crown.

[imtomtomim]

hmm, took a look at the mizuno site you linked and (not to seem like a know it all) but that is completely different from all the pros and club smiths I've talked to. I do play TT DG x100's. I have stiff shafts in my fairway and driver because I don't have the money to reshaft and get new clubs yet so I just try to swing slower. But, I know when I'm swinging too fast because the club whips around and it will be prone to a low hook. I mean, you get the whole picture I painted up there in my last post right?

You know what, mizuno might be considering that every swing is in tempo, because a softer shaft in tempo would provide more kick and spring to it at impact giving the ball more spin. That would make sense having a softer flex with a higher ball flight.

Maybe check the way your shoulders are positioned in a mirror. if your right shoulder is a lot lower than your left, you're gonna launch up on it pretty hard. The less dip you have, the lower the flight you'll get. I'm just trying to come up with more explanations, it's tough not seeing what's actually going on. It would also be really strange for you to need an x-stiff in your driver while the rest of your set plays regulars. That's drastically different.

BTW, higher weight shafts also launch lower.

If you try out some shafts and find that you're more consistent with the stiffer, go for it.

[pinhigh27]

actually, the stiffer the shaft, the higher your ball flight is going to be. Most likely it's your launch angle. If you look at a picture of impact, the clubhead face is actually closed more and the shaft is shaped in a c with the open side facing the target. A stiffer shaft would get you less closing of the face which = more loft at impact. The benefit of a stiffer shaft is less shaft flex which is a bit easier to control. (but if you don't have the swing speed, it could actually close and then rebound and open up before you hit the ball)

That sounds quite incorrect to me, why would you go stiffer then? Pros play stiffs and x extras and so on, to take their ballflight down. So your saying tiger would hit a regular shaft lower than his current driver? Maybe because of a low 150 yd straight left hook, but your theory would destroy the whole reason for going stiffer. Can someone else chime in?

[ballhog]

I dont think this problem has as much to do with the stiffness of your shaft as it does the kickpoint. You should probably go to a mid/high kickpoint stiff shaft and that will help keep your ball down

[lumpuckeroo]

Look at this website:

http://golf.about.com/cs/tipslessons/a/shaftflex.htm

[leezer99]

Go here for more on shafts... http://www.golfalot.com/Equipment/Bu...es/Shafts.aspx

[ControlJunkie]

hmm, took a look at the mizuno site you linked and (not to seem like a know it all) but that is completely different from all the pros and club smiths I've talked to. I do play TT DG x100's. I have stiff shafts in my fairway and driver because I don't have the money to reshaft and get new clubs yet so I just try to swing slower. But, I know when I'm swinging too fast because the club whips around and it will be prone to a low hook. I mean, you get the whole picture I painted up there in my last post right?

Yeah, all of the rest of my stuff is R-flex, for now. Irons are still in R-flex because I havent bought my new fitted set. When I get those, they'll definitely be stiff. I'm planning on swapping in a stiff flex in the 3W and hybrid as wel, just dont have the $ right now. I plan on getting the stiff AxivCore in the 3W as well, because I definitely get some ballooning out of my 3W. I was going to wait to reshaft it when I made my final decision on my driver shaft, and put the same in the 3w.

Also, thanks for everyone's responses, I appreciate it. So to add to my original question - I'm not talking about a drastic change here, like I said before, I do like the shot shape, I just wish I could bring it down some. If I went with the UST ProForce AXIV Core x-stiff (I play the stiff version right now), the shape should be close to the same, just a little lower, since weight, torque, etc. are all pretty similar in the same line of shaft, right? Also, at a demo day a couple months back, I was handed a Ping G10 with an x-stiff in it. When I first hit it, I didnt know flex what it was, but I didnt feel like it was way too stiff or anything. I also cant remember which make/model the shaft was because I hit so many that day. The problem is, since there isnt an industry standard for flex, one mfr's x-stiff may be equal to anothers stiff, so I know I cant solely base it on that.

[enis750]

Yeah, all of the rest of my stuff is R-flex, for now. Irons are still in R-flex because I havent bought my new fitted set. When I get those, they'll definitely be stiff. I'm planning on swapping in a stiff flex in the 3W and hybrid as wel, just dont have the $ right now. I plan on getting the stiff AxivCore in the 3W as well, because I definitely get some ballooning out of my 3W. I was going to wait to reshaft it when I made my final decision on my driver shaft, and put the same in the 3w.

i wouldnt buy that shaft it is a mid-high launch shaft...regardless of the stiffness, it will still go high you need a heavier shaft w LOW TORQUE the one i just bought would also be perfect for you i have a 110-115mph swing the driver and having same issues as you great ball direction, just WAAAY to high also on the verge of an x-stiff, but still went w a stiff i bought a UST Pro Force V2 77g and 2.1º of torque no such thing as a "kickpoint" it's about "torque": READ THIS a shaft w lower torque and more weight, will flex just like an x-stiff shaft w lower weight and higher torque - similar to the shaft you want to buy just my .02 , but read that article i have used my new shaft and now have perfect ball flight (i think) and still have control if you go to a 7.5 or 8.5º driver, you will be all over the place

[ControlJunkie]

i wouldnt buy that shaft

Awesome link, thanks big time. I've read great stuff about the V2, and I'll definitely check it out. I also saw that the AXIVCore Tour Reds were a mid to high lauch vs. the AXIVCore Blue, which is a high launch. I'm pretty sure the AXIV Blue is the model in my Dymo Str8. That's another great thing about that driver - experimenting with different shafts is extremely easy! After what you said about the V2, I want to try it, the AXIV Red, and the stock AXIV, all side by side. It looks like none of them are all that expensive either. The V2 is $70 at Golfsmith, and the AXIV Tour Red can be had for $150 or lower in various places. Think I'll be checking the V2 out first...

Like you said about being on the verge of x-stiff, but going with stiff instead, all I've ever heard is play the most possible flex you can get away with. I need to stick with that mentality. Also, like you said about 7.5º/8.5º, I too think I'd be all over the place, and I definitely dont want to go that low. For whatever reason, I feel extremely comfortable with the Dymo dialed in at 10.5º loft/1º closed, and that's really where I wanna leave it. That's why I was thinking stiffer, but I'm going to try what you said, and try a few shafts in it with lower torque and possibly more weight. I definitely think you're onto something there. Thanks for the advice!! And thanks to everyone else who posted as well!

[enis750]

Awesome link, thanks big time. I've read great stuff about the V2, and I'll definitely check it out. I also saw that the AXIVCore Tour Reds were a mid to high lauch vs. the AXIVCore Blue, which is a high launch. I'm pretty sure the AXIV Blue is the model in my Dymo Str8. That's another great thing about that driver - experimenting with different shafts is extremely easy! After what you said about the V2, I want to try it, the AXIV Red, and the stock AXIV, all side by side. It looks like none of them are all that expensive either. The V2 is $70 at Golfsmith, and the AXIV Tour Red can be had for $150 or lower in various places. Think I'll be checking the V2 out first...

no worries

let us know how you make out bro

[ScottRempel]

Agreed...try out the V2 or the Red. The default shaft in the STR8-FIT is the Blue and as stated, it is a higher launching shaft. I too have hit the V2 in a Dymo2 (not STR8-FIT) and loved it. Actually bought a used one but it arrived with a broken shaft and I'm currently waiting for the seller to find a new shaft for it. The Red would be another good option, but as you've seen, it is about double the cost.

[ControlJunkie]

no worries

Without a doubt! I'm hoping I can work something out either with the shop at the course I regularly play, or the Nevada Bob's near me. Either way, I'll dig this thread back up once I try them out and let everyone know how they both perform.

Agreed...try out the V2 or the Red. The default shaft in the STR8-FIT is the Blue and as stated, it is a higher launching shaft. I too have hit the V2 in a Dymo2 (not STR8-FIT) and loved it.

Dude, how did that happen? I'm guessing it broke during shipping???

And yeah, the Tour Red is close to double the cost, but as long as we're not talking Diamana Blueboard/Whiteboard prices, I'm ok with it!! I hit a Rapture V2 with a Whiteboard in it, and had to put it down after one swing. The Ping rep said "what, you dont like it??" I told him I had to put it down because I liked it too much and didnt even want to get the tought in my head of buying one of those shafts in it!! I cant imagine what they Dymo STR8 would feel like with either one of those 2 in it.

[ScottRempel]

Dude, how did that happen? I'm guessing it broke during shipping???

Yeah...box didn't even look bad, but when I opened it the first thing I saw was the break

. My guess is someone or something put weight right in the middle of the box. The worst thing is I'm not hitting my current driver as well anymore...I think it knew it was getting replaced and now it's mad at me

[ControlJunkie]

Yeah...box didn't even look bad, but when I opened it the first thing I saw was the break

LOL, yeah, my old Sumo 5000 doesnt like me much anymore as well, since I bought the Dymo. The last time I brought them both to the range it really wasnt pretty. It was like Jessica Biel vs. Courtney Love (in her nasty crackhead days).

So, is the seller gonna pay for the reshafting as well? That just sounds like an all around bad situation, because neither of you are really responsible. Where did you buy it from, ebay?

[ScottRempel]

LOL, yeah, my old Sumo 5000 doesnt like me much anymore as well, since I bought the Dymo. The last time I brought them both to the range it really wasnt pretty. It was like Jessica Biel vs. Courtney Love (in her nasty crackhead days).

Not too big a deal...the seller is from here and has been great about everything. I'll probably pay to get it reshafted...will only be $10-15 Canadian. He is shipping the replacement shaft at his expense.

Hoping to get it early next week and put that bad boy into action.

[ControlJunkie]

no worries

A little update on my situation - I didnt get a new shaft for the driver yet, but the R flex UST in my 3 wood had been driving me nuts, as I was getting some major ballooning on it. I dropped it off yesterday to get re-shafted, and will be picking it up tomorrow afternoon. I ended up going with the UST ProForce V2, stiff. I think I should be able to get a decent idea from that in my 3W how it will feel in my driver. I realize the difference in the length and the weight of the club heads will play into that, but I still think I'll be able to get the general idea.

I did realize on the way home from work today that I made one idiot mistake though. I didnt check to see what the weight on the V2 was. I dont think they actually put the new shaft in yet though, so I should be able to call first thing in the morning. I'm really hoping it's the 75 gram that they put in, and that I'm not too late. When looking at all of the shafts on Golfsmith.com, I saw that some of UST's and others' shafts can be ordered pre-pured. Can someone explain what that is? I read the short explanation on their site, but really didnt get it. Also, what are the benefits?