Picking it Clean...What does it mean?

[Marinemike]

Alright, I've gotten down to bogey golf primarily through my short game going through the roof. I'm almost giddy about using the wedges and putter.

Anyway, that's not what this thread is about.

One thing I'm working on is getting my swing down with the irons. It's coming around on the range, alignment and ball flight are good, and I'm getting that Mizzie feeling about 85% now. Thing is, I am leaving NO divot. What does that mean? As a rookie (and now on my bad days) I would always get majorly fat. Is it an overcompensation? Is it desirable with the 4-8i's?

[jambalaya]

I think basically if you are taking little or no divot your are picking it clean. Some people like to play that way but most take a some kind of divot. You have a better chance of hitting the green with a no divot shot than a fat shot. What are your distance with your clubs.

[Marinemike]

I think basically if you are taking little or no divot your are picking it clean. Some people like to play that way but most take a some kind of divot. You have a better chance of hitting the green with a no divot shot than a fat shot. What are your distance with your clubs.

I know picking it clean is not taking a divot. I was more asking what does it say about my swing and is it something that will hold up under pressure on the course.

Distances have recently changed for the better. Here's my best data so far... 9i: 130 7i: Tiny, tiny bit short of 150 5i: between 170 and 175 I'm still working on nailing down some more exact distances with the rest of the clubs, but I spent most of my time today on my driver which is unbelievably short, but that's a different thread.

[Where's the Cart Girl?]

Where do you put the ball in your stance? Too far forward could cause the club to want to bottom out before the ball (fatness) and as a compensation you're coming through too shallow when you do hit it (picked cleanness).

It's not always a bad thing to take little or no divot from what I've heard/read here, but it's definitely not the norm and I don't understand how a correct strike with anything less than a 5 iron could leave no divot.

[jambalaya]

I think you will sacrifice a little distance because you are hitting the ball a bit more on the upswing than a divot taker. As far as holding up under pressure that will be somewhat individual with you. I wouldn't bet against setting up a consistent swing with little or no divot. How do you do on pitching and chip shots? Those two shots help a lot with consistent scoring. I would find taking divots important more important with the wedges.

[Marinemike]

Where do you put the ball in your stance? Too far forward could cause the club to want to bottom out before the ball (fatness) and as a compensation you're coming through too shallow when you do hit it (picked cleanness).

Ball stay between my center line and about 3 ball lengths forward. I should say that my wedges and 9i do take an average divot. But 8 and longer is disturbingly divotless and still soft and consistent.

...but it's definitely not the norm and I don't understand...

Exactly! That's why I brought it up to the peanut gallery.

I wouldn't bet against setting up a consistent swing with little or no divot.

Thanks.

How do you do on pitching and chip shots? Those two shots help a lot with consistent scoring.

I wouldn't say I'm knockin'em down, but they're the very biggest reason I'm not a 25 hcp.

[Where's the Cart Girl?]

If you say that you can still hit soft shots with things as they are then I wouldn't worry about it. You just want to be sure that they're not landing soft because your "helping" it into the air at impact, the softness of anything above an 8-iron should be largely due to spin, and you have to strike down to produce spin. If you splayed open a 4-iron and undercut it perfectly you could probably get a pretty soft shot and no divot but thats not the idea.

Stick with what works by all means, but at the same time be aware of the physics involved in hitting a golf shot. Consider where your left arm is pointing at impact, hopefully slightly ahead of the ball, and if the club is to become an extension of this arm as the hands finish releasing, it should have no choice but to bottom out just passed the ball.

[kafka01]

It's coming around on the range, alignment and ball flight are good, and I'm getting that Mizzie feeling about 85% now.

If i hit my 67´s without a divot i´m not getting the "feeling" as if i take the divot. Also my ball flight is different. As previous poster mentioned, a solid strike puts proper spin on the ball so that it rises up - if i "pick it to clean" (on the upswing/thin) it gets airborne but it stays pretty much on the same level before descending on a shallower curve than the proper struck ball that descends faster. So how does your ball flight look exactly?

[tsbrewers]

it is probably just your style, nothing wrong with that. I golf with a buddy who is that way and he is a low single digit handicapper.

I am the complete opposite, I start taking good sized divets with my 5 iron probably. By the time I at at a wedge I am taking foot long divets. Ok, not a foot, but I know I have hit 6" long divets 20' before. personally when i am playing well with my irons, I am driving in to the ball and ripping out the ground AFTER I make contact. Because of this I tend to hit the ball very high, but get good distance. I will pull a wedge at 150 if everything is perfect, a 9 if I need some finesse.

Brew

[ks8829]

short iron shots need a divot for solid contact. The reason for this is if you hit the ball in the center of your iron face your can not help but take a divot after hitting the ball on the turf just in front of where the ball was. If you are not taking a divot you could be hitting your iron a groove or more too low or thin.

[shaun]

short iron shots need a divot for solid contact. The reason for this is if you hit the ball in the center of your iron face your can not help but take a divot after hitting the ball on the turf just in front of where the ball was. If you are not taking a divot you could be hitting your iron a groove or more too low or thin.

Yep, that's right. Do you ever take a divot? Do you sweep the ground

after the ball? If not, without seeing your swing, I'd assume that you're hitting the ball slightly on the "up" -- that is, your body (including your legs) and your arms are too far "behind" the ball coming into impact, and you flip the club with your hands to make solid-ish contact. You can check whether this is happening by forcing yourself to take a divot. If you find this uncommonly difficult, or if you can only hit the ball fat, then you have a problem. While some posters have commented that a divot isn't sbsolutely necessary, i think it's beyond argument that it's certainly desirable, at least with clubs shorter than, say, a 5-iron. If you take a divot, you'll know a couple of things. First, if your divot was correctly positioned after the ball, you know your contact was good. Second, if your divot is pointing along the target line, you'll know that your downswing was probably on plane. Good luck.

[Zeph]

Isn't the only difference that the ball is struck closer to the bottom of the swing, so the club doesn't go low enough to take a divot? Like hitting a wood at the bottom of the swing.

[chilly]

I don't take a divot with any iron, always found it a bit strange. I may "trim" the grass in front of the ball on shorter irons, but never a divot. Odd thing is that I hit the highest ball of anyone I play with, by a large margin, my 9iron literally has the trajectory of a SW. I don't have distance issues, my 9iron is a 150 club. I'm not too worried about it at this point, I don't really spin the ball but the trajectory makes them drop and stop, just a little tougher playing on windy days.

[Zeph]

Makes perfect sense that you hit it higher. The closer the ball is struck to the bottom of the swing, the more loft is added to the clubhead. With the hands further ahead of the clubhead, the clubhead has less loft at impact.

The clubhead will always reach the lowest point when the shaft is perpendicular to the ground. If you hands are in front of the ball at impact, the shaft will be angled with the butt pointing forward. This means that the clubhead has yet some distance to travel before it's at the lowest point. Which means that if the ball isn't tee'd up, you will brush the grass or take a divot.

If the hands are directly above the ball at impact, the shaft is perpendicular and the clubhead will be at the bottom of the swing. No divot taken there.

If the hands are behind the ball at impact, you've either hit the ground first or hit it thin.

[Zeph]

Some pictures. Probably exaggerated a bit, but it's for demonstrational purpose.

[Chas]

Lots of good posts here. If you change to taking a bit of a divot you will be delofting the clubface a tad at contact, hence it will behave more like a "longer" club and you will hit the ball further (except the club will be the same actual length of course ... - that's partly how the pros get those impressive distances with their irons). The ball trajectory will start lower. You definitely want to achieve that in the end - ALL good players do it. So you are right to want to do something about the clean picks with mid/short irons.

Another point, based on a good article I just read that tells you how to intentionally pick a ball clean (e.g. out of a fairway bunker): you may be hanging back a bit with your body on the down stroke and have learned to avoid chunking (the normal consequence of doing that - don't ask me how I know ....). So IMO (without seeing a video I'm guessing) you should try moving your hips foward (towards your target - the famous "bump" move) as you start the down stroke, but of course keep your head just behind the ball all the way to contact (or else you'll push the bezeesus (right, right hander) out of the ball - don't ask me how I know that either .....). You have to commit to a forward movement so that you hit slightly down on the ball with all irons but the longest.

All of this assumes proper ball position, which it seems you have.

p.s. see other threads on this forum about getting that hip move going as you inititate the down stroke - it's really important to proper angle of attack to the ball.