Compressing the Ball

[Zeph]

It's not about hitting the sweet spot, it's about making a descending strike. Using the phrase "compressing the ball" is to make it easier to comprehend, because it does feel like you compress it compared to a swing where the club picks the ball up from the ground.

Hitting the ball at the bottom of the swing, or even at the way up and hitting it on the way down are two very different things.

[mc0388]

I don't mind playing my irons just slightly back of center but... does anybody know why this is happening? Comments welcome!

You're probably not holding your lag long enough. Flipping the club a bit too soon to hit down on the ball when it is further up in the stance. If we contact the ball properly our shaft should still have a forward lean to it which allows us to hit the ball at a slightly downward angle. What is probably happening is that your club shaft is almost straight up and down when you contact the ball when have the ball forward. You've lost the angle between your back wrist and the forearm.

I wouldn't start playing the ball back in your stance! More than likely it will lead to problems with a balanced finish.

As for the lag thing, I think its more of a weight transfer thing (which can definitely help with lag). Your weight might still be a touch back when your start your decent on the ball that leads you to come up short getting to the ball... But without video it would be hard to tell , Im just guessing

[misty_mountainhop]

It's not about hitting the sweet spot, it's about making a descending strike. Using the phrase "compressing the ball" is to make it easier to comprehend, because it does feel like you compress it compared to a swing where the club picks the ball up from the ground.

Of course it's about (ideally) making a descending strike but it's also very

definitely about hitting the CoG/sweet spot. I have an old friend who almost never hits a divot but is one of the best iron strikers I know and all he does is brush the turf even with a wedge; he may be descending slightly at impact but hardly. I doubt very, very much whether, in a proper iron strike, anyone compresses the ball against the turf before it takes off. The feeling you're experiencing is the club striking the turf under/in front of the ball combined with the lack of vibration having (hopefully) hit the ball off the CoG. If the ball is struck via the CoG it's effortless (cut/draw/slice/hook excepted!), almost as if you didn't even hit a ball. It's just hitting the ball properly.

[misty_mountainhop]

....As for the lag thing, I think its more of a weight transfer thing (which can definitely help with lag). Your weight might still be a touch back when your start your decent on the ball that leads you to come up short getting to the ball...

Perceptive comment. Definitely no lag without a decent weight transfer through the ball.

[Zeph]

I doubt very, very much whether, in a proper iron strike, anyone compresses the ball against the turf before it takes off. The feeling you're experiencing is the club striking the turf under/in front of the ball combined with the lack of vibration having (hopefully) hit the ball off the CoG. If the ball is struck via the CoG it's effortless (cut/draw/slice/hook excepted!), almost as if you didn't even hit a ball. It's just hitting the ball properly.

I've never said the ball compresses against the turf, I know it doesn't. What you hit first is very much determining how the shot feels. I do recognize the difference of hitting the ball first and hitting the ground first. That's my point here, to actually get the ball striking needed first, then work on lag. I know how it feels when you hit the sweet spot perfectly, it's like hitting through a ball of soft butter. It's a feeling I can't possibly get with casting.

With a shallow swing it is possible to hit the ball on the way down without digging up any dirt. If I recally correctly, a pro has the bottom of his swing arc 4 inches in front of the ball. Once you've established the bottom of the swing arc ahead of the ball, you can start working on impact with impact tape fi. There are probably many good iron players that don't take divots, but as far as I've read on the subject, most good players say you should take a divot. All the worlds best iron strikers do.

[misty_mountainhop]

I've never said the ball compresses against the turf, I know it doesn't. What you hit first is very much determining how the shot feels. I do recognize the difference of hitting the ball first and hitting the ground first. That's my point here, to actually get the ball striking needed first, then work on lag. I know how it feels when you hit the sweet spot perfectly, it's like hitting through a ball of soft butter. It's a feeling I can't possibly get with casting.

A lot of discussion but I

think we're on the same page here really aren't we?

[Zeph]

A lot of discussion but I

Yes, I think we are. I do however see that I was wrong here. I am a stubborn bastard, but I'm also very eager to learn, and gladly admit when I'm wrong.

I just happened to have my best day of ball striking in my life. Having those shots where it feels like butter all the time. Doesn't feel like compressing at all, feels like the club is passing through butter. The compression feeling is something I get when my swing doesn't work. To keep it short, I move the head forwards, cast the club and pound down on the ball. Now that really feels like compression, might also be for all I know, but I realise that it's got nothing to do with good ball striking. Thanks for your contributions btw, they are mainly what gave me the idea of working on this problem, and I found a probable solution. If anyone's interested, you can read here: http://thesandtrap.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30108 I also agree that lag is a result of a good swing, not really something you try to do.

[misty_mountainhop]

....I am a stubborn bastard....

Ditto!

Thanks for your contributions btw, they are mainly what gave me the idea of working on this problem, and I found a probable solution. If anyone's interested, you can read here:

[tm22721]

Muscle memory? It's the brain that needs help "unlearning" a bad practice.

Not true. I can try to keep my hands ahead of the clubhead or 'hit down on the ball' all day. But if my head is in front of the ball at impact I WILL flip the club. Head going toward the target forces the clubhead to go away from the target. Pure physics, action-reaction.

[iacas]

Not true. I can try to keep my hands ahead of the clubhead or 'hit down on the ball' all day. But if my head is in front of the ball at impact I WILL flip the club. Head going toward the target forces the clubhead to go away from the target. Pure physics, action-reaction.

With all due respect, no. That's not physics at all. It's almost as silly as saying "club going towards target forces ball to go away from the target. Pure physics, action-reaction." Not even close to true.

The center or low point of the swing is the left shoulder. The left shoulder should be a few inches in front of the ball (with an iron). There are some good players who hit the ball with their heads back, or their heads a bit more forward, but the left shoulder is the key. If your head is in front of the ball your left shoulder is likely way too far ahead of the ball. Flipping is never a fix for anything, but the only way to not take a foot-deep divot or stick the club in the ground a foot behind the ball would be to flip and get the clubhead to the ball and coming up sooner. But almost nobody does that - they'd just hit the ball fat or take a super-deep divot.

[Zeph]

The head doesn't force anything, but moving the left shoulder forward also move the bottom of the swing forward. When you get the shoulder too far forward, the only thing to do in order to hit the ball is release the club early.

Don't know if it would work, but let's say you put down two balls in your stance. One on the left heel, one back of the middle. If you swung and moved the left shoulder forward, you should be able to hit the ball inside the left heel without touching the other one. That is how far off the ball is if you do such a move. The more the left shoulder drift forward, the more forward the ball must sit in order to be struck well.

The further back the ball is and the more the left shoulder move forward, the more you have to cast the club to hit the ball. Pretty much the story of how I have been playing golf, at least up till now.