The Stack and Tilt Golf Swing

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Huntington

'Standing upright with your hands at your sides, tilt your upper body to the left so that your head moves outside your left leg - thats your spine tilt to the left on your backswing'

That's correct, and there are pictures which demonstrate this move. More below...

Originally Posted by Huntington

This completely contradicts the 'Stacked' element of the swing as I thought you were supposed to keep your head, centre of shoulders and centre of hips stacked above the ball throughout the swing. Additionally, the image illustrating the lean isn't evident in any videos that I have seen of stack and tilt pro's on tour.

It does not contradict it at all.

a) You're not supposed to remain "stacked above the ball" throughout the swing." Your hips (lower center) and head/shoulders (upper center) remain "stacked" over each other in the center of your stance. Your ball, if it's forward of center at all, is forward of these "stacked" centers.

b) The left tilt is only one of the three pieces you do in the backswing. You're leaving out the "rotate" part. You've got "stand up" and "tilt left." When you now rotate 90 degrees you're again "stacked."

The left tilt - when you turn your shoulders 90 degrees - is towards the golf ball .

Watch this video as it demonstrates these three things well:

Originally Posted by Huntington

Any clarification on this confusion would be much appreciated as I entirely want to adopt this swing, it has all of the principals that play to my strengths and I believe if I can master it, I can improve my game.

The recommendation is that you work on the most important piece at a time. Do not just wholesale dump everything and try to implement it all at once. If your head moves six inches on your backswing and you're having contact issues , look into that part. If you're not hitting the ball out of your shadow but you're hitting it well, look at the power pieces. Etc.

Originally Posted by MiniBlueDragon

From your normal address positon if you stand upright, tilt left (as suggested in the book!) and then rotate to your right you'll find yourself in a pretty spot-on backswing position.

I agree. FWIW I find it easiest to demonstrate this by: standing up, turning 90 degrees, tilting left (towards the golf ball) to get back into your inclination. But if you're having trouble feeling the left tilt do it second (after standing).

[Huntington]

Interesting, thanks for the responses, perhaps it is because these moves are performed so fast that I don't see them performed in the videos on youtube of charlie wi for example?

[MiniBlueDragon]

Originally Posted by Huntington

Interesting, thanks for the responses, perhaps it is because these moves are performed so fast that I don't see them performed in the videos on youtube of charlie wi for example?

The key word here is "simultaneous" - The three moves are all performed at the same time , not in series... Take a look at the video iacas posted for details.

[Huntington]

Originally Posted by MiniBlueDragon

From your normal address positon if you stand upright, tilt left (as suggested in the book!) and then rotate to your right you'll find yourself in a pretty spot-on backswing position.

By 'stand upright' do you mean completely straight legs and spine? This doesn't feel natural as I was under the impression that it was only the right leg that needed to be fully extended during the backswing?

I think I should inform you guys that I am not very up to date with my terminology so excuse me if my questions seem nieve, I just want to understand the fundamentals for this swing and thanks again for the responses so far, that are greatly appreciated.

Of and if it helps .. I am English hehe

[MiniBlueDragon]

Originally Posted by Huntington

By 'stand upright' do you mean completely straight legs and spine? This doesn't feel natural as I was under the impression that it was only the right leg that needed to be fully extended during the backswing?

I think I should inform you guys that I am not very up to date with my terminology so excuse me if my questions seem nieve, I just want to understand the fundamentals for this swing and thanks again for the responses so far, that are greatly appreciated.

Of and if it helps .. I am English hehe

Yup, stand upright as-in stand as if you were standing on the bathroom scales or having your height measured as a kid. Another way to look at it would be that to take an address position you'd stand upright and then bend forward at the hips. "stand upright" is basically to reverse that.

1. Start in a golf "address position"

2. Stand upright (bend your upper torso back at the hips)

3. Lean left at the hips.

4. Rotate your upper torso around the hips.

Page 15 shows these moves in the same number order.

(3 and 4 can be reversed here with the same end result as per iacas's post)

[Huntington]

Excellent, after watching that video iacas has posted and reading your responses MiniBlueDragon at least I know that I am interpreting the book correctly, now to put it into practice! I'll no doubt be back with more questions as I progress, thanks again gentleman.

[MiniBlueDragon]

Originally Posted by Huntington

Excellent, after watching that video iacas has posted and reading your responses MiniBlueDragon at least I know that I am interpreting the book correctly, now to put it into practice! I'll no doubt be back with more questions as I progress, thanks again gentleman.

No probs. Also you're in a fortunate position, assuming your handle is in regard to your location. Huntingdon isn't too far from Bedford where James Ridyard is based. He's one of the UK's only two authorised S&T; instructors. http://stackandtiltgolfswing.com/instructors/

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Huntington

Interesting, thanks for the responses, perhaps it is because these moves are performed so fast that I don't see them performed in the videos on youtube of charlie wi for example?

Not only fast but concurrently. If you're standing up, tilting left, and rotating at the same rates they all blend together.

[Stretch]

Thought you guys might enjoy these pictures from a Charl Schwartzel swing sequence I saw today -- obviously he's getting a lot of attention and articles around here after the Masters win. This is my new personal mental archetype of how one should slide the hips forward from the top and raise the belt into impact. Magic.

PS: I am notnotnotnot trying to say that Charl "is S&T.;" I am simply pointing out that he does a few things (beautifully) that S&T; identifies as common to almost all good golf swings and tries to get the rest of us doing better too.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Stretch

Thought you guys might enjoy these pictures from a Charl Schwartzel swing sequence I saw today -- obviously he's getting a lot of attention and articles around here after the Masters win. This is my new personal mental archetype of how one should slide the hips forward from the top and raise the belt into impact. Magic.

It's good, but I'd argue that he could slide his hips forward more. He plays a fade off the tee and with his hips back a little, you can see why.

Now, I'm only talking about two inches or so...

P.S. Note the left foot in Charl's sequence relative to the tree behind him. It's not the same swing or if it is, they used a few cameras placed near to each other but not exactly (commonly done for these types of shots, since DSLRs only get 11-14 frames per second).

[Huntington]

Hey guys, I just thought I would update you with my S&T; progress so far.

After having my first round attempting to adopt this swing pattern I have to say I am impressed and will be sticking with it, for one simple reason - when I strike the ball clean it always has a more attractive flight path than with my conventional swing. The problem however is that I haven't ingrained the principals enough for clean ball striking to be consistent. I realise of course that I am probably expecting too much after only practicing this swing for one week but I was wondering, does anyone have any advice and how to gradually build  the swing in without being too detrimental to my performance?

Thanks in advance

Dave

[nevets88]

Sometimes shoulder down makes me dip - if I think concurrently L S down and R S up, centered turn, it gets me away from dipping. Does this make sense?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by nevets88

Sometimes shoulder down makes me dip - if I think concurrently L S down and R S up, centered turn, it gets me away from dipping. Does this make sense?

Yes. We will tell people "right side feelings" as often as we tell them left-side feelings.

[nevets88]

Thanks iacas. Most SnT threads pertain to the full swing. What about 100 yards and in and bunker shots? Pretty much what applies to the full swing does for smaller swings? Is the hip slide as prevalent?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by nevets88

Most SnT threads pertain to the full swing. What about 100 yards and in and bunker shots? Pretty much what applies to the full swing does for smaller swings? Is the hip slide as prevalent?

We teach some things very different. S&T; ("weight forward, shoulder down, hands ahead, whatever") is great for a basic chip and the intermediate full swing type things, but outside of that we teach things fairly differently.

[MiniBlueDragon]

Question: What is the prescribed angle of swing path compared to the target? If the left arm goes back 20 degrees from the target line, should the swing forward also be 20 degrees from the target line or should it be less? My gut feeling is that it should be closer to 10 degrees but I wanted to ask as I'm debating about adding an extra "swing path" line to my golf balls to give me something to swing along if possible.

p.s. I looked through the book and fast forwarded through the videos trying to find the answer but have missed it or it's not clarified.

[Zeph]

I don't understand what you mean by left arm going back 20º from the target line.

The prescription is to align parallel to the target line and swing in-out with a clubface between the target line and swing path.

[MiniBlueDragon]

I don't understand what you mean by left arm going back 20º from the target line.

The prescription is to align parallel to the target line and swing in-out with a clubface between the target line and swing path.

Yeah I think I confused myself. The DVD's show a diagram whereby the left arm swings back 20 degrees from the target line and then follow through the right arm is back 20 degrees so I think that's clouding my thoughts. To correct and simplify the question, if the target line is 90 degrees to the left of the golfer at address and he wants to draw the ball he needs to hit it with an in-to-out swing path and a club face that is closed to the swing path. If the target line is 90 degrees, what would be an ideal swing path?