With enough practice can anybody become a pro?

[DBeane]

I believe it was Mr. Hogan who said golfers arent born, they are made. True, there is a certain amount of coordination and athletic ability required.

Lee Trevino once said the more I practice the luckier I get.

In Steve Elkingtons book he mentioned several times that he hated hearing people use terms like, effortless, born with it, or natural when describing his swing.

When it comes to playing golf and competing at a high level, I dont believe "anybody" can do it, however I believe I can do it. I suppose thats all that really matters. Golf can be whatever you want it to be.

-Beane

[wedge player]

I believe it was Mr. Hogan who said golfers arent born, they are made. True, there is a certain amount of coordination and athletic ability required.

exactly what he said

[Bart]

One of the best golf books I've read is "Paper Tiger" by Tom Coyne...It was a fascinating read...But right off the bat you realize there's a huge gap between a scratch golfer and having the ability to get through Q school....

I started reading this book last night and am about halfway through it. The most interesting observation to me, so far, is that scratch is awesome--but not it's not even in the same ballpark if you're thinking about being a tour player. Pardon the length, but it's an interesting (if not enjoyable) excerpt:

Consider the golf-greatness pyramid's base, a wide mass of good players, great players, best ball strikers you have ever witnessed firsthand, the only ace you have ever been accidentally, terrifyingly, matched up with—we'll call him or her The Best Player You Know. Maybe he's your club champion, maybe your neighbor's sixteen-year-old, perhaps it's your boss who has the scorecard from Pebble on the wall and tells all the clients, "Shot 73, couldn't make a damn putt." The real sticks, guys who talk about what they might have done in golf if they steered their life a little differently, if they only took their shot. A two-, three-handicap—maybe even a scratch player. If you watched them hit balls, you would weep inside. And here's the news about The Best Players You Know: They're shit. Scratch is shit. The Best Players You Know simply cannot play. They are the mere masses, golf 's faceless proletariat, utterly forgettable. They are little more than the wide sprawling base of wannabes on which the pyramid is planted. Slightly higher up the talent chain, but still miles from the pinnacle, are your Club Pros, the teachers who disseminate their golf wisdom for a living, the caretakers of the game who taught you how to hold a golf club and whose insights you take as gospel. When they hit balls on the range, the members all stand back, whispering and nodding, cheeks pink with envy. But in terms of golf ability, these Club Pros, they give hopeless a bad name. Just because somebody wears pants on the golf course and took classes in how to run a successful caddy program doesn't mean they can play. Not to say they couldn't once go low, not to say they weren't on the cusp of being household names, but the nature of the golf business is such that, if you really want to get good at golf, go into real estate. Cash registers and equipment reps and golf committees have laid waste to more golf potential than alcohol and expecting wives combined. Spend sixty hours a week kissing ass in the shop and curing shanks on the range, and the last thing you want to do is go work on your swing path. You would be shocked how many head pros and assistants can't break 80 from the tips at their own golf club. I'd almost have to rank this group below The Best Player You Know, as they surely play a helluva lot less golf than a good club player. Yet I have to give them the nod, on account of the genuine golf potential that suckered them into the business many years ago. Next in the rankings comes the Stud Amateur. This is the college scholarship type, the soon-to-be-pro player, or the dedicated amateur who loves golf but never wanted to make it his living. They are often consultants or salesmen, half-employed with flexible schedules and memberships at coffee-table courses all over the country. It's not uncommon for the Stud Amateur, should he make a run at the U.S. Amateur or the Mid-Amateur, to be invited to join the country's most elite clubs. You want to get into Pine Valley? Win the U.S. Mid-Am Championship, because at the most coveted clubs, nobody is impressed by your portfolio. The next cross section of golf greatness is a large and crowded slice of the pyramid—it's the spot for the Mini-Tour Philanthropist. There is really nothing mini about the mini-tours: The players aren't shrunken, the courses aren't shorter, the schedules can go year-round, and the competition isn't any less intense. The only thing that is mini is the crowds, the dollars, the lifestyle. Mini-tours can cost players anywhere from $10,000 to $20,000 in fees for a season, and without gate receipts or TV money to bolster the purses, these tour pros go out and play for a prize pool made up largely of their entry fees (it's sort of like buying into a giant Nassau—don't think about asking for strokes). Go any place in America with grass and year-round warm weather, you will find them congregating at driving ranges, bunking up five guys to an apartment, living off dollar-menus, and beating up their parents' Sunoco cards. The vast majority of these players are burning through sponsorship money (sponsors being their parents, grandparents, or a syndicate at their club), winning a couple grand every couple months on the Grey Goose or the Hooters or the Golden Bear, trying to extend their golf careers past college and dodge the working world for as long as possible. They are touring pros, and they are maybe just a few big wins away, but the reality on the mini-tours is a lot of golfers fill up the pot, and a handful of players empty it. If it was a poker tournament (which in some ways it is), the Mini-Tour Philanthropist would be considered dead money. Which brings us to a thinner slice of the talent, where the pyramid moves out of the red and into the black with the Mini-Tour Grinder. These are golf 's great journeymen—think of them as old cowboys, the last remaining heroes of a grand traveling tradition. You have never heard of any of them (until Todd Hamilton won the British Open, thus forfeiting his journeyman status); they travel the world hunting purses on the Australasian, South African, South American tours. They don't have personas, they just have game. They earn modest, often comfortable lifestyles playing in golf 's shadows. For one reason or another, they haven't broken through into the elite, but that's not as important in the life of the true Grinder, who's too busy playing events you've never heard of, winning on tours that sound made up, traveling to far-off places where you didn't know they even had grass, let alone golf courses. It isn't glamorous, but it's noble, a throwback to touring pros who were more sole proprietors than superstars, getting by in golf when the margins were so much stiffer than they are today. Go from the Grinder to the Nationwide Earner. The Nationwide, formerly Buy.com, formerly Nike, formerly something else tour, might be considered a mini-tour were it not for the considerable bump in talent, venues, and purses of the Tiger Era. The PGA Tour's minor league has its own television contract, and its purses have ballooned to where Nationwide players can make the same money they would have made on the PGA Tour not fifteen years ago. You can now become a millionaire playing this "secondary" tour, and any player on the tour is just one good week away from the big dance. The tour's top-twenty-five money winners get their tourcards (winning an event near guarantees you'll end the year in that company), and any three-time tour winner is automatically promoted from the Nationwide to the PGA Tour—it's called a Battle-field Promotion, and while the military jargon fits, it's really more like an honorable discharge, from suffering anonymity. This is where serious, soon-to-be-superstar, top 1 percent of 1 percent golf is being played, and it's perhaps the cruelest part of the pyramid for that reason. This is where the talent bottleneck gets tightest. Nationwide exempt players are all good enough to be household names. They can taste their childhood dream, just a handful of putts away, but few will ultimately break through to the big time. Most will watch their lucky friends and colleagues tuck into the fame and the fortune, while they have to settle for another year playing in front of a few dozen people who aren't quite certain who they're watching. Up at this height, the pyramid's capstone really starts to sparkle. This is the rarified air of the PGA Tour professional, where even the lowliest earner is blessed, anointed, touched by divine golfing fingers. The sponsorship money can be absurd, and just making a few cuts bumps you into upper-class America (again, thank you, Tiger). The most ordinary of this extraordinary bunch are the Six-Figure Survivors, pros who get by on pro-am money and a half-dozen paychecks, usually made at the lesser-known tour stops. They might be tour rookies or one-hit wonders or ex-tour greats getting by on sponsor's exemptions. By tour standards, they are below-average talents, many of them will be sent back through the Q-school at year's end to justify their spot on the pyramid, teeing it up against the younger, stronger, hungrier masses. Still, if you were ever paired up with the lowest man on the PGA Tour money list in a pro-am, you wouldn't be able to discern the difference between Tiger on TV and the golf you were witnessing right there. And yet, the Club Pro and the Stud Amateur and the Attached Pro, they could dispatch The Best Player You Know using persimmon woods and a guttie. And none of them are quiet as battle-hardened as the Mini-Tour Philanthropists who are already making hefty donations to the Grinders, and the Grinders don't even dream about the steady life of the Nationwide Earner, who would still ask a PGA Tour Survivor for their autograph. All of them would stand in line to shake hands with a PGA Tour Player. And as for the Superstars up in the stratosphere looking down on all of it? They should amend those ads on TV—These guys are good. How good? You've got no ••••ing idea.

[ctw262]

I started reading this book last night and am about halfway through it. The most interesting observation to me, so far, is that scratch is awesome--but not it's not even in the same ballpark if you're thinking about being a tour player. Pardon the length, but it's an interesting (if not enjoyable) excerpt:

To sum up the paragraph from the book you quoted: "And here's the news about The Best Players You Know: They're shit. Scratch is shit. The Best Players You Know simply cannot play."

Harsh, but true.

[joepro23]

Wow, I read Bart's posted excerpt of "Paper Tiger" and I like the author's boldness and straightforward writing style. Looks like I may have a x-mas gift to put on my list.

A few months ago I watched an interesting documentary called "The Back Nine" by Jon Fitzgerald who at age 40 (and a 15 handicap) tried to see if he could "turn pro". He kept his day job at the same time, but as spent as much time as possible on his game and hired trainers, coaches, etc. to improve his game. I don't want to ruin it, but over a few years he just gets to about a 4 handicap. If he just played golf 24/7 during those two years, maybe he could have gotten to scratch and/or club pro level. Even if he did though, there is a huge difference between scratch and tour pro like the Paper Tiger excerpt said. I would estimate that if an average/good PGA tour pro played a round with a 0 handicap straight up he beats him by 6-8 strokes.

[andyh]

Paper tiger is great and a highly recommended read. The thing is he is trying to get through q-school in 1 year, starting from about a 15 handicap. he gets to scratch handicap, which is amazing in just 12 months.

I wondered how far he would have got if he continued playing with the same dedication for the next few years. To be the best at a sport takes amazing dedication. Tom coynes efforts were just for one year and if he had continued with these efforts he may have found his way into the elite golfing pack. BUT, having the desire, patience, perseverence to keep going is probably what it takes to make it to the top. Dealing with the knockbacks, missed cuts, golfing plateaus, family, injuries etc and coming back stronger. Thats when you will know if you got a chance. If you keep coming back stronger then I say you do.

Tiger just does not give up. The guy is the best in the world and he still trains and practices more than any other player. That sums it up. If you want to reach the top of any sport you have to be so single minded and dedicated.

Do you have that mental strength? If so then you have a chance. Of course you need talent. So if you can train and practice 5/6 days a week, and have the mental toughness then you can do it. Absolutely.

And the amount of practice required is phenomenal. The other poster was right about the 10,000 hours of practice required. This was a study that estimated you need this amount of hours to achieve mastery. Tom coyne did it for one year, but he probably needed another 3/4 years at his same level of training. He probably became mentally burnt out after that 1st year.

Jack Nicklaus said it took him 6 years to know his swing. To have mastered it. 6 YEARS and he was and probably still is the best player whoever played the game. If it took him 6 years then it is not going to come quicker to anyone else.

[Lebowski]

Anyone remember Tiger saying " If you're a 10 hdcp you won't break 100 out here" after a tough US open round? That probably tells you what kind of game you would need to compete at anything even close to that level.

[65withatriple]

So your saying that no matter how good you practice and no matter how perfect your swing gets you can't turn pro?

I am saying not everyone can practice their way on to the PGA Tour. You could.....but not anyone. Takes something extra.

[tjy355]

So your saying that no matter how good you practice and no matter how perfect your swing gets you can't turn pro?

ANYONE can become a "pro." You need only to declare yourself as such and pay your entry fees and compete in tournaments for prize money.

Being a pro and making a living as a pro are two different things. But I think your question relates more to can anyone with enough practice, play golf at a high level. I say no. Some people just do not have the physical athleticism required.

[zrlaegel]

I almost always believe anything is possible. with that being said, i believe some people have an innate ability to something; while others work hard enough to reach a certain level. i think anyone can break 100 but i think some people do not work hard enough to even acheive that level. i would even venture to say the past 80 its mostly mental ( knowing yourself, course managment, emotional managment) and i dont believe people have that control. with that being said..... no i dont think anyone can play professionally, but i think if more people tried there would be more than just the nationwide, and hooters for large development tours

[zrlaegel]

I almost always believe anything is possible. with that being said, i believe some people have an innate ability to something; while others work hard enough to reach a certain level. i think anyone can break 100 but i think some people do not work hard enough to even acheive that level. i would even venture to say that past 80 its mostly mental ( knowing yourself, course managment, emotional managment) and i dont believe alot of people have that control. with that being said..... no i dont think anyone can play professionally, but i think if more people tried there would be more than just the nationwide, and hooters for large development tours

[Leftygolfer]

short answer, no.

[flopdarock]

the question is "With enough practice can anybody become a pro?"
anybody? the answer is hell no!
certain ppl... sure... its a possibility...
take a look at big break... these guys are all tour wannabe's and we have a thread pretty much clowning all of the participants... i would think an hope these guys are at least scratch golfers and they have a hard time making shots when it counts...
anybody? with tons of practice... i play alot of golf but i know guys that play every single day and practice before an after playing... they will never be tour caliber even tho they might have an incredible round every now and then...
guys on tour shoot even for the day and its a bad day... how many times have you seen pros make a snowman on a hole? i can count on 1 hand the times ive seen that on tv... let alone even a triple...
hell i know guys that are absolutely obsessed with golf that arent even single digits

[Brakkus]

Amazing that posters on here think that not everyone can become pro.Honestly answer this if you want it bad enough why not?I mean no one is born a golfer,some hand eye co-ordination and hard work.

I have limitations in my circumstances and have family etc....
Although I have seen and played with better golfers,I haven't seen anything that frightens me about my own ability to play just as well.I'm convinced I'm going to be a single digit handicapper.

I say those who have achieved excellence in sport chose not believe the masses.They chose to say That it can be done.They accepted it was a long road,they didn't listen to the doubting thomas's of this world.They dared to dream,they dared to try,and they made it.

[Leftygolfer]

There is a HUGE difference between someone who has a HCI of . something and a touring pro.

If you want to be good, work at it. But if you haven't played as a kid and start playing as an adult (as I did) I would say the sub digit HCI is a rarity.

I started when I was 22 and I am 30. I went from not being able to break 100 to a 14 in about 2 years. Career best is 75. If I had more time I could be better than I am, but I have other priorities in life. I am happy I can play with anyone and not be nervous or embarassed. If I play well, I will make a few birdies, shot in the 70, maybe close to par if I really have my putter going.

Golf is a sport. Not everyone can be great regardless of effort.

[sean_miller]

Amazing that posters on here think that not everyone can become pro.Honestly answer this if you want it bad enough why not?I mean no one is born a golfer,some hand eye co-ordination and hard work.

Follow your dream, but most golfers I know dare to suck - go for it!!

[Lars]

This is simple, Not Everyone wants to Play Golf...

Now could every Golfing amateur make the Pro Cut... this requires determination and lots of mental control... short answer... No just like Charles Barkley's golf swing hitch... If he can't overcome with probably the Best Swing coach in the Game, then nothing can help him and he used to be a 7 handicap...

If passion to be great is added to practice that's coached, I believe some can make great things happen...

There are those who have Zero business swinging a Golf club... let alone Hitting a ball in front of Hundreds of people...

[flopdarock]

i still say the key word to the question was anybody
im sorry but there are some ppl that are much worse than charles barkley and even practice more than barkley and they out right suck at golf...
barkley was a pretty decent player before the hitch... he even had haney try to improve his play and cant do it... "anybody" includes charles barkley and all the ppl that just suck... so the simple answer is NO!