My Swing (kleraudio)

[kleraudio]

P2??

When should the club go behind me?

Jim

[daneos]

Look, I can see what you are doing wrong. As you take the club back, you whip the club head so far inside. The quickest way to fix that is to take the club head out side of your hands. Also, with your follow through I can see you are pulling across your body with an open club face, which causes the big fades. To fix that try to swing the club right of your target, ie if your target is a tall black tree, swing the club on the down swing about 10 meters to the right of that tree.

Hope this helps =)

[jamo]

P2??

P2: Club shaft parallel to the ground on the takeaway

Courtesy of "Erik's Snippets Blog"

[kleraudio]

So Im pretty sure I made no progress today, but just to humor you and myself, here's a couple vids.....

My swing has gotten worse now that Im working on this.....



By the way, quicktime sucks as I cant get it to save in slow motion. Actually it IS saved in slow motion, but when uploaded to youtube, it goes back to normal speed with a lag in audio...... SO maybe youtube is the culprit

[iacas]

So Im pretty sure I made no progress today, but just to humor you and myself, here's a couple vids.....

Pretty much the same. I don't think it's worse at all. Just the same.

I get the sense that you're being impatient here. Did you not believe us when we said it would take you awhile to make this change? You need to spend hours in the basement with a mirror or something. I've been working on this four times longer than you have (or longer) and am just now starting to see solid results in full swings - which are still only 20% of the swings I practice or make. The rest are simulated backswings or me taking the club away with no ball.

By the way, quicktime sucks as I cant get it to save in slow motion.

You can use iMovie if you want to do that. 60 FPS is great when you step through frame by frame but playback is always at 60 FPS...

[iacas]

You know what you have to do...

Try a bunch of these in a mirror and see what sticks or works. These are all from P1 (address) to P2 (shaft parallel, takeaway):

1) Keeping your right elbow against your side and pull back the grip with your right hand instead of lifting, flipping/pushing with the left.

2) Look at the ball from the middle of your eyes and not the bottom, and simply turn the left shoulder DOWN more. Your shoulder turn is very flat.

3) Push your left arm under the club as if you feel you're counter-rotating more. Try to keep the right hand on top of the club more. And when I say push, I mean push back towards your right hip - IN, not UP and AWAY. Move your hip out of the way too - it can't help.

4) Grab a range bucket and put your hands on each side of it. If your target is north you'll be facing east - point the opening of the bucket that way. Take your hands away to the inside (on the plane) while trying to keep the bucket pointed to the east as long as possible. Don't let it point south.

5) http://thesandtrap.com/forum/entries...ep-Hands-Drill

6) Make full swings that take a full minute from takeaway to impact. Literally a full minute. NAIL the positions. Repeat twice, take a swing at half speed. Repeat twice, take a swing at half speed.

I'm guessing you can't find a PGA Tour Pro whose hands move away from his body like yours, or who flips the club back in so far behind you.

[kleraudio]

Erik, once again INVALUABLE info, number 2 seems like it may help alot as well! Wish I had a mirror, it would save me A LOT of money instead of going to the range all the time! The cord on my Zx1 is too short to be able to prop it up on the tripod AND get far enough away from it to view myself swinging on the tv.

I like number 4 a lot as well....

Can you post a vid of your swing maybe? I'd really like to see your takeaway so I have something solid to compare to?

And your right, all the YouTube Ive been watching, I cant find a tour guy who moves his hands away, and flips inside......

Your right man, I kind of didnt believe you when you said it would take a while. In everything else in life I am a FAST learner, once, twice, mastered..... This is a giant curveball, but Im game... I WILL improve this!

Should I get this taken care of before I go see a PGA pro for lessons? Sure dont want to use up all 5 of my sessions on takeaway drills

Thanks a million for all your help Erik, Beer is on me if you ever make it down to Tampa!

Jim

[senorchipotle]

can't fathom why you're so worried about the take away. whatever take away gets you in the position to load the shaft and unload it from an inside position down at the ball is what you should use. who cares what the backswing looks like if you strike the ball well?

[iacas]

can't fathom why you're so worried about the take away. whatever take away gets you in the position to load the shaft and unload it from an inside position down at the ball is what you should use. who cares what the backswing looks like if you strike the ball well?

He's a 15 handicapper... so I'm guessing he doesn't strike the ball all that well.

The backswing - as you say - sets up the downswing. If you do something "bad" in the backswing you have to compensate in the downswing. Additionally, the backswing happens slowly enough that you can fix things, while the downswing is tougher to fix (and thus tougher to compensate too).

[Quinn07]

Jim,

I have the same issue with having my hands outside and the club head inside. Never realized it until I saw myself on video last weekend. I feel your pain with trying to get rid of it and I certainly believe Erik when he says that it's going to take a long time to fix. Think how long it took for Tiger to make appropriate swing changes - he hits 1000's of balls in a week and does it everyday and he's supernatural. Be patient, maybe get a teacher and things will come.

[Rexx]

To me, it looks like you're rolling your forearms at the start of the swing combined with setting the right wrist early. You need to eliminate these early motions and swing a bit more around and then up on the backswing for a more seemless inside delivery on the downswing. For you, I suggest taking some practice backswings where you imagine you need to chop a block of wood that is to your right from your normal setup position. If this were the case, you would simply turn your shoulders 90 degrees and lift the club straight over your head. Do that a few times and then, instead of taking the club straight over your head, take it over your right shoulder. You don't have to actually go all the way, it's just the path upward you want to take. In reality, you should begin the lift of the arms about 1/3 of the way through the shoulder turn. It is about this time that a slight setting of the right wrist should occur (and vertical cocking of the wrists), but very little forearm rotation.

Anyways, your top of backswing position is actually not bad (maybe a bit across the line with the driver, but that might be the camera angle). Your bigger problem is with the downswing. You have the traditional two plane swing... your hands and club are up on the shoulder plane at the top of the backswing, which is fine. They need to get down to mid-torso level at some point fairly early in the downswing, so that they can get whipped around the body. The downswing is not the backswing reversed. You don't move the butt end of the club away from you in a wide arc. Notice how on your downswing you can see a gap between your right elbow and your side (a no-no). This eventually leads to a fully extended right arm before impact (another no-no). Some might call this casting. You need to move the hands vertically downward after you have shifted/bumped/slid your hips to the left to make room. For some people, this downward movement happens passively, but I'm guessing you're going to need to unlearn the habit of downswinging in an arc. After you get the club down to the right plane, it's going to go on a nice ride as you turn the hips and shoulders.

My two cents... good luck.

[kleraudio]

He's a 15 handicapper... so I'm guessing he doesn't strike the ball all that well.

Thanks Erik (but your right)

To me, it looks like you're rolling your forearms at the start of the swing combined with setting the right wrist early. You need to eliminate these early motions and swing a bit more around and then up on the backswing for a more seemless inside delivery on the downswing. For you, I suggest taking some practice backswings where you imagine you need to chop a block of wood that is to your right from your normal setup position. If this were the case, you would simply turn your shoulders 90 degrees and lift the club straight over your head. Do that a few times and then, instead of taking the club straight over your head, take it over your right shoulder. You don't have to actually go all the way, it's just the path upward you want to take. In reality, you should begin the lift of the arms about 1/3 of the way through the shoulder turn. It is about this time that a slight setting of the right wrist should occur (and vertical cocking of the wrists), but very little forearm rotation.

Rexx, I know my downswing needs A LOT of work, thanks for the compliment about the top of my swing though! Any compliments are good right about now. I want to get this takeaway figured out, then im gonna work on the downswing part. Dropping vertically is a great image to have, I appreciate that.

Cant wait to start working on that part of my swing! Jim

[Zeph]

Working on the downswing is difficult without a good backswing. The better you take the club back and get it in the right position at the top, the easier it will be to get it down again the right way.

[Shanks A Million]

Jim,

I hit 120 balls a day (full swing), that's 840 balls a week. It took me about 3 days to get the change, then about two weeks to keep it. The change itself is easy, but you won't hit a ball solid for a while. You must discipline yourself to do it right, or you will never improve, and that's the hardest part. I would imagine getting good at golf is like quitting smoking, it's

so easy to fall back into the same routines if you lack discipline. I had to go down to the range and look like an absolute fool, apologizing for shanking balls onto the tee box next to the range, but it paid off. All the other people down at the range who have the same swing day in and day out never get better, I do. The hardest part about golf, is that to get better, you have to get worse.

[Rexx]

A few more comments after watching the videos some more:

1. You should probably widen the stance on the driver a bit and open up your feet a bit on all clubs (i.e. point the toes out a bit). They're both pretty square at address.
2. For the backswing, keep the connected takeaway (see attached video). The triangle formed by the arms does not change for the first part of the takeaway and there is no forearm, wrist, or hand movement. The shoulders simply turn back for the first part of the swing. Note, the club will come off the ground because your spine is angled and your shoulders are turning on that axis. So, it's not like you're dragging the club on the ground for the first part of the takeaway.
3. Then, there will be a definite upward movement of the arms (in a two-plane swing) to get the hands and arms up to the shoulder plane (about 12-18" of vertical lift, I would guess). This movement is independent of the continuing shoulder turn. This is also when the wrists are set (vertical cocking of the wrists and the setting of the right wrist, plus little or no forearm rolling). Done properly, it's probably gonna feel like the club is quite vertical and not "on plane" for you, since you're used to rolling and setting your wrists early. But that's just a feeling that should go away.
4. FYI... Relative to your shoulders, your hands start somewhere just left of center at address and are approximately even with your right shoulder at the top of the backswing. That is about a foot or less of "left to right" movement in total during the backswing. Also, even though I talk about a vertical lifting of the hands, it's only about 12-18". The rest of the total vertical distance of the hands (say another 12" or so) is from the turn of the shoulders on the tilted axis of the spine.

[kleraudio]

Well, Im stuck at home with a pulled back. Its getting better and Im actually able to take half a backswing, at least to parallel, i dont go farther than that because I dont wanna worsen my back.....

Anyways, trying not to roll my forearms on the takeaway, I find I cant get the "toe up" at parallel. Parallel to the ground and the toe is closed, not toe up like it should be. The only way for me to get it toe up is to roll the forearms a little bit...

any ideas??

Hope to get to the range Friday, but thats up to my back to decide

Jim

[iacas]

Anyways, trying not to roll my forearms on the takeaway, I find I cant get the "toe up" at parallel. Parallel to the ground and the toe is closed, not toe up like it should be. The only way for me to get it toe up is to roll the forearms a little bit...

Toe up isn't square. Toe up is open at that point.

[kleraudio]

Then why is it that its always recommended to be to up at parallel??

Ive seen it recommended everywhere....