Shaft mechanics....need help!

[Crey23]

All right, this is not the typical thread about which shaft should I get....I'm sure I'll be making that one once I get fitted. What I want to understand is swing mechanics and the effect of the after market shaft (I know it sounds like a thesis paper).

So Until very recently (last night), a shaft was a shaft, was a shaft.....of course they came S,R, X and so on, but never really thought about changing the shaft....To me if I wanted to tweak my driving, I would either move the weights on my R7 cbg Max, or start looking for a new driver. I have been leaning toward the Titleist 909D2 and Comp drivers, but cannot (will not) drop $300+ on a new driver, and the used market is a little tough to find quality. SO I decided to keep my current driver, but Thinking about changing the shaft.....with my rant over....this is what I need to understand..

1. How does the added weight on the shaft affect the composition of the driver. My R7cbg is a D3 weight (whatever that means) will a heavier shaft alter this (I pretty sure it does) to maybe D4 or D5?

1.a. If it does alter the weight, should I consider maybe dropping a few grams from 16 gram weight to compensate? Does this even make sense?

2. Flexpoint ... What should be looked at? How does it relate (the position) to the launch angle (does it)?

3. Torque ...2.8, 3.5 what should be looked at...what does this number mean in my swing and how does it affect it? ( I assume that a higher torque value translates in less torsion on the shaft, thus potentially increasing accuracy (by reducing slices)). How can a monitor measure this?

4. Spin ...how does the shaft alter spin...I thought spin was controlled by the loft of the face and the grooves, or lack there of, on the face...how does the shaft alter this? (Lag maybe?)

5. Launch Angle ... This I'm sure is more relevant to the fitting....assuming that I have a high launch angle a mid angle should improve my trajectory...does this make sense?

6. Snappy Vs Stiff...How does this whip effect alter my shot? I assume that this has to do with the flexpoint of the shaft ...my r7 cbg Max has Mitsu 49g, very light and whippy shaft.

I should note that I used to game counterfeit TM Burner '07 all stock (um...supposedly). With that said, I assume that the shaft didn't really weight 50g, and the shaft was not really 45"... but I was getting major slices, but great distance. My longest was 280, but my avg was somewhere in the 260's. Witht the r7 cbg my longest is 257, and I average 238 (SUCKS).

I can't remember all the stats but I believe that are:

SS: 95 - 105, occasionally 105-110, max 111
my tempo...not as smooth...still working on this, particularly on the transition between at the end of my back swing.

Thanks for the help!

[Crey23]

hahahaha....I know it's an intimidating post...but come one people you can break it down!!!

I know you can! ;)

[iammpspeer]

Weight: Heavier usually means you swing slower = can mean you will be able to control it more. It is also a feel issue, whatever feels best with your swing. No to 1a.

Flexpoint, where the shaft flexes. If there is a low flex point/kick point, you will have a higher ball flight and visa versa.

Torque, how much the shaft twists. 2.8 is low I believe. 3.5 is about avg I would say. Yes, less torque means you would it would not rotate as much and could mean less shanks, but torque can also work the other way depending upon how your swing. Maybe you need higher torque to get the clubhead square. I have no idea HOW a monitors reads this, it just does. THis is nmore importatnt in woods.

Spin- Kick points can alter spin, how you swing can alter spin, clubhead can alter spin, wind can alter spin. Less toque I believe would give you less spin.

Lauch angle- I don't know what a "Mid angle" is. If yours is high, get a kickpoint to help with that. I'm sure there are other factors, but I know that is one. If your high angle is because of spin rate, consider torque.

with your swing speed.. stiff.

I hope im not wrong on any of this, but I could be. My best reccomendation is to get fit and they will look at all that for you!

[WUTiger]

Flexpoint, where the shaft flexes. If there is a low flex point/kick point, you will have a higher ball flight and visa versa.

To expand on a couple of

iammpspeer 's points: Starting with swingspeed: You average about 100 mph., while I'm only 85 mph. So, you would be able to hit the ball higher with a given club because of your greater swingspeed. Flexpoint comes into play also. A person with a higher swingspeed needs a medium to high flexpoint to keep the ball lower, especially on a driver. This helps you get the "more boring ball flight" that some drivers promise in the ads. The "more boring ball flight" also leads to a lower landing angle, which improves your roll. Again, a session on the launch monitor can help determine if mid or high flexpoint would be best for you. (I went through the whole science project in 2008 when I was replacing my D and FWs).

[Crey23]

Thank you guys!

I have done some research on the matter, and I am leaning toward the Aldila NV-65 or the Matrix Ozik XCON-6, but cost here might be a bigger factor....My Cobra Hybrid and Titleist AP1 all have Aldila shafts, so I do like the feels of these, but I'm keeping my options open to when I get fitted.

It''s getting pretty pricey..$30 for the fitting (a must I guess), $19 for the installation, $10 for the grip, $50-$70 for the shaft....$100 - $130 for a new shaft!!!! And I thought re shafting was cheaper than a new driver!!!!! :(

[iammpspeer]

You could kick the 19 and do it yourself, but I guess you would have to buy the supplies to do that.

[sherwoodnatl]

Along the same lines...i have a driver SS around 95
Stiff or Reg?

[iammpspeer]

Generally Speaking:


I personally think they kind of underestimate. I would say 110 is x-flex, but this is the chart I found.

[Crey23]

Generally Speaking:

Well I found an old post here from June...and my SS started about 85, and maxed at 101. And I do recall playing at the cust of stiff....which was about 95, I was thinking it was 105, hence my comment on OP. The pro there told that I could use Stiff, but that for stiff it required for me to atleast swing 95 consistently, otherwise I would not square the face off and I would end up hitting slices....He was right!!! The Stiff 909D2, I thiki it was a Diamana shaft yielded very low 160 to 180 ( Ithink maxed at 200) an ver far right....a few that did even register on the monitor......

So I'm pretty sure I am a regular....looking at max in the 65g range, as to not alter the weight of the club that much more.... What about grips??? any tips in selecting one....or stick to TM OEM?

[Crey23]

Along the same lines...i have a driver SS around 95

Depends....is your low end 95, or do you average 95? Also how consistent are driving straight? If you are maxing 95 SS and you have a slicing problem, stick with the regular shaft.

[Crey23]

iammpspeer I found this chart for Aldila shafts.....though to be interesting.

[Blades4me]

Thank you guys!

I agree with others who have said, "get on a launch monitor". The numbers from that will direct you to the correct lofted driver and shaft combination for your swing. The NV-65 is a good shaft, but I like the Matrix Ozik X conn 6 better. I like any nanotech shaft I've found,but they tend to be spendy. Another shaft that is very good and not a nanotech and noticablly less expensive is the Grafalloy ProLaunch Platnuim.

[chilly]

Good post, I'm in the middle of learning a lot of this terminology as well, and how it relates to ball flight. I've been tinkering with different shafts as a result. I had a quick fitting recently and have a SS of 117, low launch according to the monitor (but high ball flight on course conditions possibly due to spin), and high spin. So, I'm looking for mid launch shafts with low spin, somewhere in the Stiff to XStiff range. I found in the fitting that a Motore shaft seemed to help my dispersion, possibly due to the active tip that this shaft supposedly has. This is where more torque can actually help alleviate a push/slice by helping roll the club over, although I remain confused how it does this but still can hit the ball low and with low spin.

I have to say, the number of shafts, and the anecdotal information you get on these forums is both a blessing and a curse. I learn a lot, but you'll have two opinions 180* apart on the same shaft based on a particular users swing, different clubhead, different perception, etc...so it's tough to decipher at times.

Then you have feel come into play, as well as some "grey areas". I have been told I have a very quick swing tempo, I don't really come close to parallel on my backswing so I have a quick transition and am more of a "hitter" then "swinger". Translated, I don't have a nice pretty fluid swing. So, I like the feel of a more "boardy" or stout shaft. I also may trend to a somewhat stiffer shaft in reference to my swing speed, as I load it more quickly. Something like an Aldila NV, which is considered a solid shaft, feels a little loose to me on transition. So, in my small sampling, I prefer something like a UST Proforce which others may hate for the very fact that it's not as lively or snappy as the NV (as one example). I may end up leaning more towards a 75g shaft as well. Along with this information, through building a few drivers, I've learned that you can effect the characteristics of a shaft by trimming the tip differently then "standard" configuration.

I'm with you though, I'm looking for the Holy Grail of shafts as well. I actually found the stock Cleveland Red fit on shaft to be the best thing I've hit, low launch and spin turns my high ball flight into nice boring trajectory shots with some decent rollout. I've assembled a 85g NV in an '07 Burner to try as well, along with a stock shafted '09 Tour Burner that I'll be experimenting with. Love the clubhead in the '09, but the stock shaft is inconsistent for my swing. Also trying to find a GOOD clubfitter in the area to eliminate all the trial and error. I have seen the huge effect that a shaft can have, so I do think it's worth the effort, and it's a pretty interesting pursuit.

[Crey23]

Good post, I'm in the middle of learning a lot of this terminology as well, and how it relates to ball flight. I've been tinkering with different shafts as a result. I had a quick fitting recently and have a SS of 117, low launch according to the monitor (but high ball flight on course conditions possibly due to spin), and high spin. So, I'm looking for mid launch shafts with low spin, somewhere in the Stiff to XStiff range. I found in the fitting that a Motore shaft seemed to help my dispersion, possibly due to the active tip that this shaft supposedly has. This is where more torque can actually help alleviate a push/slice by helping roll the club over, although I remain confused how it does this but still can hit the ball low and with low spin.

Blessing and a curse.....yup sound familiar! That why some people say that "ignorance is bliss...."

I am a techno/tweak geek. I like to tinker with things to find that maximum performance, without having to buy the trend or spend zillions of dollars doing so. I do love the head on the r7 cbg, and really like the ability to adjust my path, to make up for my swing inconsistencies. This way I dont have to buy a draw club to play, and a neutral to practice. what I can't understand is the reasoning behind such a light shaft for men's clubs...I have felt that unless I limit my swing to 75% power I can't hit anything in the fairway, and while I do realize that some of it is me and my path, I have a feeling that the shaft is shafting me (pun intended)!!! Such a light shaft must have a light torque, thus when I do decide to whack the ball even with 30 yard to draw setting i slice maybe 5 to 10 yards of center. I dont seem to have that issue with other clubs I've tried. So again my conclusion points to the shaft. I'll update what happens....I plan on going to get fitted this weekend.

[tweaky]

Good info here from you guys! I'm proud of you Crey for going to a fitting, just hope it's with a good clubfitter and not a "salesman". If you can get your swingspeed and tempo time along with where your wrist release occurs ( a late release would start at about belly level) I'll put the numbers into the shaft profiler database and see what it says. Might find some interestingly inexpensive selections.