critique please - video in slow motion

[golf-beginner]

I have been learning golf myself for about 3 month now, recently i started taking lessons. Below are the two videos taken before and after I took the lesson( about 10 mins interval). I can swing club 'my old way' and hit the ball pretty straight, but with the new swing, i always hit right, and I still can't figure out where when wrong.
The instructor was really nice and lesson was quite helpful, i think my swing looks a lot better now, and I actually swing with less up body effort. but i just can't figure out why it is still slice to the right 50% of the time.


Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Before



After back:



After front:


thanks

Eric

[steve8820]

In the "After" down the line shot, it looks to me like you are getting very little body rotation. Your hips do not appear rotated at all at impact. You are trying to flip the clubface closed with your hands. Rotate your body and keep you hands passive. Use the big muscles to square the clubface, not your hands. Your lower body has to get out of the way or you are going to block/push everything right.

[Quinn07]

I agree with the post above. In your after your lower body is way behind your top. If anything it should be the other way around, within reason of course. I would talk to your instructor and let them know what the problem is. If they tell you that everything is fine, particularly after showing them these videos, I would find another instructor.

[golf-beginner]

I agree with the post above. In your after your lower body is way behind your top. If anything it should be the other way around, within reason of course. I would talk to your instructor and let them know what the problem is. If they tell you that everything is fine, particularly after showing them these videos, I would find another instructor.

Thanks Quinn07, the instructor knows about it, we are working on correcting one thing at a time. for some reason, once i start rotating lower body fast, i usually produce a very bad shot.

[grantc79]

Honestly, I would disagree with the not using your hands comment but there are a million different ways to swing a golf club.

To me the hands have to be taught to do everything in golf. You can't learn how to play basketball, football, hockey, baseball, or any other sport without teaching your hands what to do. Why should golf be different?

That said I think your swing honestly looks really good for a beginner.

Starting the ball to the right is a very good thing believe it or not. Most people are over the top slicers which is a huge issue. You don't seem to have that issue. That said you seem to be saying the ball is starting right and then spinning to the right as well. That would mean an open club face at impact.

This probably happens for you because you don't seem to rotate the sweet spot enough during your back swing.

Take a look at your first video at :19 seconds in and notice how the toe of the club has not rotated upward and thus the face hasn't opened yet. You continue this throughout your backswing. The club face should be wide open at the top of your swing and then closing at impact.

Your club face stays closed throughout your back swing, thus it can't close at impact, thus you are swinging closed back to open front which is the opposite of how it should be. Open face means spinning to the right.

I would do some practice swings with a mirror behind you and focus on really opening the face wide open going backwards which will probably make you slice the ball even more. However once you start getting it open going back, you can then start to teach yourself how to close it.

[Shanks A Million]

I know what's wrong, you swing too slow!

That said I think your swing honestly looks really good for a beginner.

Absolutely. I also agree with the first two posters. Look at your DTL "after" swing. Your shoulders are rotated back only about 1/2 of what they should be. You pick the club up with the hands (I did this for like 20 friggin years!) and don't turn the body enough. Armsy, and it's hard to break. I'd practice teeing up some balls and really trying to discipline yourself to not chop down at it with your arms. Let the body do the work, it's stronger. When I hit a ball, I feel like I have no arms, they are almost totally passive.

If it makes you feel better (I sure hope it does), I don't think my swing is much better, and I've been playing 20 years. I have probably more swing flaws than anyone, but I hit it straight and pure. Here's a 3 iron.

[grantc79]

Absolutely. I also agree with the first two posters. Look at your DTL "after" swing. Your shoulders are rotated back only about 1/2 of what they should be. You pick the club up with the hands (I did this for like 20 friggin years!) and don't turn the body enough. Armsy, and it's hard to break. I'd practice teeing up some balls and really trying to discipline yourself to not chop down at it with your arms. Let the body do the work, it's stronger. When I hit a ball, I feel like I have no arms, they are almost totally passive.

Not to start a fight but his left shoulder has cleared the ball by the end of his swing. Not sure what more you could want.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with using your right hand and right arm in your backswing. In fact many feel that's the best way to do it. If you pull the club back with your torso you have a very strong chance of getting way too far inside. Basically pull with the right hand a hair, then fan the right forearm backwards, raise the club with your deltoids, clear the right hip and right shoulder. I don't know why you are asking for help on here though. Your swing looks very good for how long you've been playing. The only thing advice from tons of people here could do is derail your progress.

[golf-beginner]

Not to start a fight but his left shoulder has cleared the ball by the end of his swing. Not sure what more you could want.

Thank you for the kind words and encouragement. I think you are defintely right, i think the problem is probably an open club face at impact, and lower body not rotate fast enough. Thank you for pointing these out. However, you are also right that I am actually getting more confused reading through this thread :)

[grantc79]

I think your lower body is fine to be honest.

In the golf swing nothing should really be fast. Make it all very slow and deliberate.

I think the main thing you need to learn is to get the club face more open going back and close it completely at impact.

[golf-beginner]

I think your lower body is fine to be honest.

Thanks. I think 'club face more open' was the problem in 'before' video, I thought i corrected that in the 'after' video.

I still not sure how to close it completely at impact, any swing thought i should do to achieve that?

[Fatphil]

can't help u with the golf swing but you have an awesome camera...what is it?

[grantc79]

Thanks. I think 'club face more open' was the problem in 'before' video, I thought i corrected that in the 'after' video.

Not really corrected in the after video.

It isn't far off but it doesn't have to be far off to give you some crazy motions in your swing. Take a look at Tiger: At :18 seconds the toe of his club is pointing straight up in the air. Now take a look at Tiger at 1:13 seconds. The face is extremely shut. Take a look at your club face at :26 still somewhat closed. Now take a look at :54 past impact it is a lot more open than Tiger. I would say a good swing thought is by the time you reach the position Tiger is at at that frame that the patch on your glove should be pointing directly away from your body or slightly up in the air. Right now your patch is pointing slightly towards the ground at that position. As far as closing the face at impact. basically you just have to train that left hand to roll. Pull the club back to that frame I showed you earlier and make sure that the toe of your club is pointing straight up in the air (point 1). Now take the club through impact at the same position and shut the face down as much as you can with your left hand (point 2). Make this move over and over again from point 1 to point 2. When you go to point 1 stop and monitor the club face to make sure its pointing at the ceiling. Then go to impact slowly and make the patch on your glove point down the target line in front of you. Then go to point 2 all the while rolling your left wrist to shut the face down. You should start seeing the ball move left in flight pretty quick if you can make that happen during your swing.

[steve8820]

Not really corrected in the after video.

To the OP, I suggust that you continue your lessons with the Pro and apply anything mentioned on this forum very lightly if at all. You are at a stage where learning the right way now will save you far more down the road. I made the mistake of getting a few lessons early, had some success, and then assumed I could figure it out on the range. WRONG!!!!!! I am now forcing myself to relearn certain things in order to really get as good as I can.

I saw your question about a swing thought for squaring the clubface. IMO, this is certainly not a candidate for a swing thought that you want to incorporate. This is going to lead you down the road of handsy impact positions which will allow you to play decent golf on the days that your timing is good. You are going to rob yourself of power with this as well. It is your body that swings the club and squares the clubface. Embrace that. It is far more repeatable and provides loads more power than hand manipulations for a poor golf swing.

[iacas]

At :18 seconds the toe of his club is pointing straight up in the air.

That's an open position.

Take a look at your club face at :26 still somewhat closed.

I wouldn't call that closed at all. It's almost perfectly square to the plane. "Toe up" is not square to the plane.

I would say a good swing thought is by the time you reach the position Tiger is at at that frame that the patch on your glove should be pointing directly away from your body or slightly up in the air. Right now your patch is pointing slightly towards the ground at that position.

Eh. And I'd ignore that advice entirely.

As far as closing the face at impact. basically you just have to train that left hand to roll.

Nah. You don't need to roll the left hand. Some good players do, some don't, and I'm a big fan of taking out the relatively weak amount of power you can get by rolling the clubface over - it often screws things up a heck of a lot more than the amount of power it can give you. Honestly, what would you rather have: 20% more accuracy (and I'm being conservative there) or 1% more power?

Pull the club back to that frame I showed you earlier and make sure that the toe of your club is pointing straight up in the air (point 1). Now take the club through impact at the same position and shut the face down as much as you can with your left hand (point 2).

Please don't.

To the OP, I suggust that you continue your lessons with the Pro and apply anything mentioned on this forum very lightly if at all.

Agreed.

I saw your question about a swing thought for squaring the clubface. IMO, this is certainly not a candidate for a swing thought that you want to incorporate. This is going to lead you down the road of handsy impact positions which will allow you to play decent golf on the days that your timing is good. You are going to rob yourself of power with this as well. It is your body that swings the club and squares the clubface. Embrace that. It is far more repeatable and provides loads more power than hand manipulations for a poor golf swing.

Agreed as well.

[golf-beginner]

can't help u with the golf swing but you have an awesome camera...what is it?

LOL, it is not my camera, instructor's. I will get the model next time.

[iacas]

I fully support what steve said about listening to your instructor over what we're saying here. You're a unique case since you're just starting out - keep listening to your instructor.

So this is more for other people than you, even if I say "you" in addressing the OP.



Head slides back and never gets back to where it needs to be at impact. This causes the shoulder angle to steepen (green line) coming into impact and so you end up flipping at it a little. Fixes would be to keep the head in a better spot, get it back to where it needs to be (by pushing the hips forward even more), and pulling the left arm across your chest faster, or, probably better in your case, straightening the right elbow faster. These two are very similar things that work slightly differently for different people.

To those reading along, swing to the top and don't let your right arm straighten once it hits 90° on the downswing. What do you have to do to get the clubhead to the ground? Sag into your right side, leaning backwards (to your right, or to the left in a face-on view).

Plus, it's that right arm action that causes the clubface to be so wide open at impact. Rolling the clubface open may only hurt there - he has to get the right arm straighter at impact with his hands farther in front (grip leading more) and the clubface will square up better.

Finally, note that you roll onto the outside of your right foot at the top of the backswing. You probably don't want to do that. The head being to the right because you shift it there is doing its part in causing the right-side droop I just talked about.

P.S. 0:53 of the down-the-line after video. Right arm still bent too much, sagging in that direction obvious even in this view, clubface wide open - not at all like the squarer position it had on the takeaway.

[grantc79]

That's an open position.

Which is a good thing.

Nah. You don't need to roll the left hand. Some good players do, some don't, and I'm a big fan of taking out the relatively weak amount of power you can get by rolling the clubface over - it often screws things up a heck of a lot more than the amount of power it can give you. Honestly, what would you rather have: 20% more accuracy (and I'm being conservative there) or 1% more power?

I would appreciate it if you could show me a full swing (not a flop shot) of any tour professional that does not roll his left wrist at impact.

Take a look at Boo :41 seconds: Notice the patch on the glove facing away from the body until impact at which time it rolls through. Tiger Woods :34 seconds: Adam Scott :38 seconds: Sergio 1:14 seconds: Every single player fans the club open going back and then rolls that wrist going through impact. Now you could argue that it happens on it own if you want (but it doesn't happen enough for the guy who made this thread). But either way you can't argue that they don't shut the face down at impact. It is really impossible to hit the ball relatively straight without allowing the left wrist to roll. In terms of the patch on the glove (assuming we can both agree the left hand mirrors club face position either open or closed)....... At address: Patch facing down the target line At 1/2 back: Patch facing away from the player At End of back swing: Patch facing up and away from player During down swing: Patch facing away from player At impact: Patch facing target line and closing. Moment after impact: Patch facing behind player

[steve8820]

Every single player fans the club open going back and then rolls that wrist going through impact.

You mention rolling the left wrist and allowing the left wrist to roll in the post above. Although they sound the same, are of course two entirely different things. IMO they are "allowing" the wrist to roll over, from body rotation + correct grip with light pressure.