Continued Misconceptions about Stack and Tilt

[iacas]

I see some continued misconceptions about Stack and tilt and I want to clear some of them up.

For two years - up to the early part of 2009 - I had some misconceptions as well. Not necessarily these - mine were a bit more subtle - but I still see people goofing up on these misconceptions all the time. Not just regular golfers, but good instructors, too.

• Your spine leans towards the target at the top.
  Your spine leans to the left, but when you rotate it 90 degrees on your backswing, it's pointed towards the ball. If you've traditionally shifted off the ball and leaned right, then it may feel like you're leaning towards the target, but in fact you won't (shouldn't) be.
• You can't hit your driver.
  Once you get the technique down hitting a driver is almost easier - you'll properly hit the ball from the inside and with an open clubface, which adds loft to the clubface.
• You'll have back problems.
  Well that's just silly. Not only have no S&T; golfers had to withdraw from an event due to back problems, but many golfers report that their backs feel better after switching.
• You lose distance.
  Most PGA Tour pros gain distance (sometimes not much, but a little). Almost none lose distance. Average golfers almost always gain distance for two reasons: better contact and better mechanics.
• You don't shift your weight to the right.
  Your weight still goes right. It doesn't feel that way, but it still goes there. What you don't do is slide your head.
• You need flatter clubs.
  Your fit is your fit, and a good impact position is a good impact position. That doesn't change (except perhaps becoming more repeatable! ) with S&T.;
• You can only hit a draw.
  A draw is the stock shot, but you can fairly easily adjust to hit a fade. You can alter the height of shots fairly easily too.

There. Got that off my chest.

[Travtex]

My main issue/problem with the swing method is...

*You have problems finding an instructor that won't tell you you're doing everything wrong.

Heh.

[JaY_B]

[*]

Well to be fair, it doesnt matter whether its the stack or tilt method, PGA method or any other method there is still going to be an unatural twisting of the spine which will lead to injury in some golfers.

[canadianpro]

Okay Eric...I totally agree!

What, in your opinion is the most common mistake the majority of golfers make when trying to switch to the S & T model?

[iacas]

I just thought of another:
You need to be young/flexible/strong.
Tommy Armour III doesn't qualify as any of those things, and I've seen a guy in his 70s hitting the ball really, really well. If anything, S&T; requires a bit less flexibility because it frees the hip to turn.

CP, I don't dare speculate on what the most common mistake is.

[Leftygolfer]

I used to be very sceptical of the swing until I tried it. I strike it so much better using this method. I am definitely longer and straighter. I am just working on the change so I haven't even tried to hit anything but a stock draw. I am amazed on the difference in a good way.

[ccmcleod]

Good stuff sir! I'm new to your site (although I lurked un-registered for a bit). :)

Anyway, I began Stack and Tilt about a year ago and have improved in every area of my ball-striking and understanding of the game. I've followed your blogs on SnT and see your posts on Facebook. My first SnT lesson was with Steve Sieracki and Logan Terry, and went to a P&B; clinic last August. It's nice to find another Forum that is not hostile to S&T.; Thank you sir!

Carlton

[Chuck Porter]

The biggest problem with S&T; is the lack of qualified instructors who understand it. I have encountered more pro's who have bad mouthed the swing pattern, primarily, IMO, out of ignorance. I have toyed with it off and on since the Fall of 2008, and am anxious to get instruction from a knowledgable pro. We seem to have some very capable experts here in Western PA, if only this damn weather would break.

From my personal experience, the driver swing is probably the hardest concept to grasp without hands on instruction. I also have difficulty pushing the hips forward while keeping my head in place. I end up lunging forward. May be inadequate flexibility, or I may just need an expert's eye.

[iacas]

The biggest problem with S&T; is the lack of qualified instructors who understand it. I have encountered more pro's who have bad mouthed the swing pattern, primarily, IMO, out of ignorance. I have toyed with it off and on since the Fall of 2008, and am anxious to get instruction from a knowledgable pro. We seem to have some very capable experts here in Western PA, if only this damn weather would break.

Indeed, a quick drive up to Erie would be worth your time. Plus something we'll be announcing soon...

And that said, I agree completely. The 20 or so pros who are truly "authentic" and can truly teach and understand the swing pattern are not exactly always easy to get to or within reach of a lot of golfers.

[Chuck Porter]

Anxiously waiting. Still kicking myself for not making it in September.

[Travtex]

Indeed, a quick drive up to Erie would be worth your time. Plus something we'll be announcing soon...

As I said above. Pretty frustrating for a newb, actually... For a while, I was thinking I'd just have to hoof out a swing on my own and then try to get lessons for short game work.

Then, I started grooving a bit with the Utley method on short shots. *hairpull* (What does one actually DO in that sort of situation? Suck it up and do whatever an available instructor dictates, or suck it up and count on having to figure it all out yourself?)

[david_wedzik]

The biggest problem with S&T; is the lack of qualified instructors who understand it. I have encountered more pro's who have bad mouthed the swing pattern, primarily, IMO, out of ignorance.

The badmouthing DEFINITELY comes from a lack of knowledge Chuck - most importantly...can't wait to see you in Erie!

Dave

[david_wedzik]

Okay Eric...I totally agree!

A few things stick out in my experience Peter and the first one is not really a "piece". So, off the top of my head...1) they think that after seeing the DVD's or reading the book they can go to the range the first day and have it "down"... 2) they do not realize how far IN their hands need to go and keep going...and 3) they think they are pushing the lower COG (tailbone/belt buckle) forward on the downswing but can almost ALWAYS go forward more.

Dave

[Fatphil]

"... 2) they do not realize how far IN their hands need to go and keep going...Dave

A block I ran into was this...I tried to break S&T; down into 3 steps...1) Hands in...then go to 2) Turning the shoulder down more...then 3) work on the hip turn spine tilt thingy...I figured a month on each. Since I always believed having my hands at shoulder level or below was "incorrect" but it felt really good, I wanted to start with that move first....What I noticed however is that if your hands are outside or above your trailing shoulder it's easy to make a full swing (especially w/ a driver) and not fully turn your shoulders..With the "hands in" you can hit the shorter clubs with a lazy shoulder turn but w/ the longer clubs if you don't make a strong shoulder turn my lead arm bumps into the chest and it gets ugly.

So now I'm jumping ahead of myself and trying to work the hands in...plus the shoulder turn...wow...I fully concur with Dave..this is not something that you can pick up in a week or two..