What's up with arrogant clubmakers?

[Shanks A Million]

OK, so I'm still in a state of shock.

I was on my way to an appointment, and I cut through a little strip mall type place. I saw a sign that said, "Golf Shop." OK, I thought, I'll run in and see if they can do a quick mod. They also had some decent deals on golf balls, so I figured I'd pick up a dozen or so.

There's two guys there, one behind the counter, the other just kind of standing there. This shop is deserted, and very tiny. Both of these guys are eying me kind of funny as I park and walk into the door... I should have known this would not end well.

I walk in, and here's the conversation as it unfolded, me, and the guy behind the counter:

Me: "Do you do club fitting... Well, not really fitting, club modifications?"
Him: "Yes."
Me: "Can you bend a CG-12?"
Him: "Yes, but they're very brittle."
Me: "Oh, really? Huh... What are they made from anyway?"
Him: "Carbon steel."
Me, curiously, with a friendly tone: "Really? Huh? And they're brittle? I'm curious though, isn't that the same as forged clubs are made from?"

Suddenly, this guy takes this really foul tone...

Him: "Sir, you asked me a question, and I answered it, OK?"
Me: "Um, I didn't mean to..."
Him: "Look pal, I've bent clubs for tour pros, OK... You don't have a clue what..."

So I looked at him, and said, "Yeah, well •••• you •••••••." I walked out, gave the finger, and drove away. One customer gone for good.

What's the deal? Why does it seem a simple question angers these guys so much?

[beisenhauer]

With all due respect, from your account, it sounds as though he wasn't the only person acting like a jerk in that case.

FYI, the reason forged clubs are less brittle than cast clubs is a difference in the grain size of the metal, even if both clubs are made from the exact same steel alloy. The clubmaker may not have known why some clubs are more brittle than others, just that they are. He probably didn't appreciate some guy walking in and questioning his expertise. He may have handled it poorly, but that doesn't mean that he doesn't know his business or that he deserved a profane response.

[Shanks A Million]

With all due respect, from your account, it sounds as though he wasn't the only person acting like a jerk in that case.

How am I questioning his expertise by asking him why CG-12s are brittle?

The only reason I told him to get bent was his abysmal treatment of me.

[sean_miller]

When a person gets a sense that a situation is going to end badly (even before walking in the door) maybe their body language changes. You maybe should have stuck with the balls.

I filled in for a friend at her college open house (for about an hour). A couple guys stopped and asked general questions about her program. Stuff I could answer. Then they asked a really specific question that I couldn't answer without looking like a tool. I was honest and said, "I think you guys know more about this field than I do". They seemed satisfied with that answer.

[Cussin hacker]

Sounds like many Doctors I have delt with. Take what I say as fact or leave me alone attitude. Bad for business.

[Shanks A Million]

When a person gets a sense that a situation is going to end badly (even before walking in the door) maybe their body language changes. You maybe should have stuck with the balls.

Maybe, but this guy crossed the line. I said absolutely nothing to question his expertise. In fact, I get absolutely wonderful service at most places, and am known as a great customer. My regular golf shop does many repairs for free because they know that I spread the word and give them repeat business. My regular guy won't bend CG-12s, but he won't bend a lot of clubs, and a tour pro friend of mine told me my regular guy is kind of shy about bending clubs.

This shop is located in a very notorious area known for being full of •••••••s, Kings Point Delray. I'm not surprised to be treated like this in that area to be honest, but this guy really, really crossed the line raising his voice to me.

[Yukari]

...

I would have to agree with beisenhauer on this one. By asking the above question, you are in essence saying "are you sure?" or "do you know what you are talking about?" You are challenging his expertise with that question, which by the response he didn't appreciate.

[MSDOGS1976]

With all due respect, from your account, it sounds as though he wasn't the only person acting like a jerk in that case.

Well said. And from the tone used in some of his post on this board, I have a tough time believing a "friendly" tone was used in the golf shop.

[Shanks A Million]

I would have to agree with beisenhauer on this one. By asking the above question, you are in essence saying "are you sure?" or "do you know what you are talking about?" You are challenging his expertise with that question, which by the response he didn't appreciate.

In what planet is asking this questioning his expertise? I'm curious as to why some clubs can be bent, and others can't so I know what clubs to buy. I mean, can they bend Vokeys? Those are cast as well. What should I buy? I asked another guy at another shop the same question, and he said that it was because they are "form forged, not true forged." I didn't quite understand what he meant, but I thought he meant they were stainless.

And should he have raised his voice at me?

[sean_miller]

In what planet is asking this questioning his expertise? I'm curious as to why some clubs can be bent, and others can't so I know what clubs to buy. I mean, can they bend Vokeys? Those are cast as well. What should I buy?

It may have been the "Oh really" and the "Huh?" more than the forged iron question. He's probably starting a thread somewhere complaining about the guy who didn't know cast Cleveland CG-12 wedges shouldn't bent. LOL

[B-Con]

Maybe, but this guy crossed the line. I said absolutely nothing to question his expertise. In fact, I get absolutely wonderful service at most places, and am known as a great customer. My regular golf shop does many repairs for free because they know that I spread the word and give them repeat business. My regular guy won't bend CG-12s, but he won't bend a lot of clubs, and a tour pro friend of mine told me my regular guy is kind of shy about bending clubs.

Giving the guy the benefit of the doubt, maybe he deals with so many know-it-alls that he has a short fuse whenever he thinks he's about to encounter another one. People working in positions like that usually have to deal with a lot of psuedo-gurus who think they know best about everything. It doesn't justify his being rude, but maybe it's a preemptive defense against that. He could be a decent guy and you just caught him on a bad day.

On the flip side, he could just be short-fused and dislikes being question. It's hard to tell, but you blew your best chance of figuring it out by treating him like that.

[Shanks A Million]

It may have been the "Oh really" and the "Huh?" more than the forged iron question. He's probably starting a thread somewhere complaining about the guy who didn't know cast Cleveland CG-12 wedges shouldn't bent. LOL

OK, let me clarify something that has confused several people. I didn't actually say, "huh, oh really." Those were more like inflections of curiosity. If I had said that, he SHOULD of gotten mad at me! I never once second guessed him, nor did I even remotely act sarcastic. What I did was, I didn't know for sure what CG12s were made from, right? So, I said, "what are they made from."

He said "Carbon steel." So I kind of stumbled for a second, and said something like, "hmm, that's wierd, I thought that was the stuff you can bend easily. So what makes the CG12s brittle? Aren't forged clubs made from the same steel?" I was trying to ask him a question, but this guy jumped on me. I've never been treated so rude, and I've asked a lot of clubmakers a lot of questions. Again, if you guys understood that this shop is in Kings Point, this wouldn't even be an issue.

[Shanks A Million]

Giving the guy the benefit of the doubt, maybe he deals with so many know-it-alls that he has a short fuse whenever he thinks he's about to encounter another one. People working in positions like that usually have to deal with a lot of psuedo-gurus who think they know best about everything. It doesn't justify his being rude, but maybe it's a preemptive defense against that. He could be a decent guy and you just caught him on a bad day.

Considering the average person in Kings Point, that's probably a fair assessment. Residents of Kings Point are so notorious, a lot of stores refuse to serve anyone getting off of a Kings Point bus.

Still, as god as my witness, I did not even remotely question this man's ability, or treat him poorly in any way, I asked a genuine question, and if it came across as questioning, then I'm sorry.

[allin]

My experience has been to never ask a technical question about equipment to anyone in a golf shop unless they have an apron on. My guess is that the attitude you received is because your expectations did not match theirs. They instantly marked you as a guy that wasn't going to make them any money, golf talk is secondary to them, they are there to make a living, club repair and alteration is there to create good will. They make money selling Putters, Drivers and sets, and in bigger stores clothes. If they thought you were going to buy a new driver and you had asked that question while making the purchase you would have loved the respone probably.

[GaijinGolfer]

I would have reacted the same way you did. Carbon steel clubheads are brittle? Really? Really????

[Shanks A Million]

My experience has been to never ask a technical question about equipment to anyone in a golf shop unless they have an apron on. My guess is that the attitude you received is because your expectations did not match theirs. They instantly marked you as a guy that wasn't going to make them any money, golf talk is secondary to them, they are there to make a living, club repair and alteration is there to create good will. They make money selling Putters, Drivers and sets, and in bigger stores clothes. If they thought you were going to buy a new driver and you had asked that question while making the purchase you would have loved the respone probably.

I feel that way too, but this place charges $5 per bend, not exactly cheap. I went there because it was convenient. I have another clubmaker that I go to who was recommended to me by a pro (soon to be tour pro! I'm excited for him!), I'll just go there. Problem is, it's a bit of a drive.

I was actually going to buy a wedge if he could have bent it for me. Too bad.

I would have reacted the same way you did. Carbon steel clubheads are brittle? Really? Really????

Can't tell if that's sarcasm, but it's

exactly how I reacted. I was perplexed.

[James_Black]

You never know what mood the person behind the counter was. Yes he shouldn't have reacted like that but should you have walked out and raised your middle finger?
Did you post the whole conversation? If so things went sour very fast.

[Shanks A Million]

You never know what mood the person behind the counter was. Yes he shouldn't have reacted like that but should you have walked out and raised your middle finger?

Yeah, I think this guy had it in for me the moment I got out of my car, but I just shrugged it off as my own paranoia. I'm autistic, but not very severely (most people can't tell), so I generally know to ignore my own gut feelings of paranoia, but in this case, I was right. My disorder, however, has the unusual side effect of an almost extreme verbal abilty (which, as you know, most people who are autistic are exactly the opposite), so I usually am VERY good at making friends, so this type of situation is

extremely rare for me. I called my father and told him, and he's like, "You were in King's Point, what did you expect???" I didn't throw it in his face, more of just a low, "f%&$ you..." and walk out. I tend to tell stories with a bit of flair I guess.