The PGA championship should move overseas

[ptodd]

Jack Nicklaus, Gary Player, Lanny Wadkins, Dave Stockton, David Graham, Raymond Floyd, Lee Trevino and Hal Sutton will be glad to know that their PGA Championships don't mean anything, since they were before 1990. Get a clue!

In 1988 Sandy Lyle won a little tournament in Augusta GA. Was the third ranked golfer in the world and chose not to play in the PGA. In 79 Seve won the open championship and didn't play in the PGA. In 1967 Roberto De Vicenzo won the open championship did not play in the PGA. The PGA was not a major.

[sean_miller]

Jamo the modern professional grand slam wasn't invented until 1960 by Arnold Palmer and a golf writer. Pre WWII two majors were overseas the open championship and the amateur championship. And it is my contention that the PGA wasn't really a major until around 1990 because outside of the US the tournament wasn't considered that important. I am starting to detect a hint of jingoism in some of these responses. Just because something exists doesn't make it right. Clearly the US is overrepresented in major tournaments when most of the top 100 are not from America.

You're saying it wasn't important before 1990? Then why did so many American players historically skip the British Open when they were held in the same month, making "The Open" basically a non-event?

You say this historically American event was not important pre-1990 (a date methinks you pulled outta your a$$), then you imply it's lost some lustre because the game is so international now. Did YE Yang look disappointed when he hoisted his bag over his head after winning the PGA on US soil? PS. Wimbledon is a bigger major than the French and a Brit hasn't won a tennis major since Jesus was in short pants. Maybe Europe has too many tennis majors? EDIT: I can't believe I responded to a troll - I suck.

[jamo]

Jamo the modern professional grand slam wasn't invented until 1960 by Arnold Palmer and a golf writer.

So what? That was 50 years ago. I'm willing to bet that is the longest time that all of the majors have gone unchanged.

Pre WWII two majors were overseas the open championship and the amateur championship.

Again, so? WWII was 65 years ago. Now the amateur is mostly looked upon as a stepping stone for bigger and better things, except by those (Tiger, Jack) who won it and claim it's still a major.

And it is my contention that the PGA wasn't really a major until around 1990 because outside of the US the tournament wasn't considered that important.

Like I said before, every golf playing country has a PGA and a PGA Championship, if they want to call them majors, who's stopping them? No one will listen, but they can call it whatever they want.

I am starting to detect a hint of jingoism in some of these responses. Just because something exists doesn't make it right. Clearly the US is overrepresented in major tournaments when most of the top 100 are not from America.

There are more US players in the top 100 than any other country. In 2008, the US played all of Europe in the Ryder cup, and won. In 2009, the US played Asia, Africa, Australia, Oceania, South America, and Canada in the President's cup and won. call it Jingoism, but them's the facts.

[ptodd]

There are more US players in the top 100 than any other country. In 2008, the US played all of Europe in the Ryder cup, and won. In 2009, the US played Asia, Africa, Australia, Oceania, South America, and Canada in the President's cup and won. call it Jingoism, but them's the facts.

Since 1985 the Ryder cup is 9 Europe US 4. In truth measuring the ability of Golfing nations by cups competitions is quite silly. Last years Prez cup team the US minus tiger had 8 majors the internationals 13. Minus tiger the top 50 internationals are better golfers than the top 50 USA. When you add Europe its laughable. Tiger just skews the numbers.

[jamo]

Since 1985 the Ryder cup is 9 Europe US 4. In truth measuring the ability of Golfing nations by cups competitions is quite silly. Last years Prez cup team the US minus tiger had 8 majors the internationals 13. Minus tiger the top 50 internationals are better golfers than the top 50 USA. When you add Europe its laughable. Tiger just skews the numbers.

I hate when people bring in number from the last 25 years. Today is 2010, not 1985. Not a single player from the '85 (or '86) Ryder Cup team played in the '08 Cup.

So what if Tiger skews the numbers? Tiger is an American. How is it valid to throw out one country's best player because they skew the numbers?

[Shindig]

Clearly the US is overrepresented in major tournaments when most of the top 100 are not from America.

They've also won majors disproportionate to their count in the top 100. Furthermore, why count the top 100, instead of the top 50, top 64, top 125, etc? Bryce Molder is currently in the top 100. Good player? Yep. How much of a chance do you think he has of winning a major this year?

In 1988 Sandy Lyle won a little tournament in Augusta GA. Was the third ranked golfer in the world and chose not to play in the PGA. In 79 Seve won the open championship and didn't play in the PGA. In 1967 Roberto De Vicenzo won the open championship did not play in the PGA. The PGA was not a major.

Lee Trevino skipped the Masters a few times. That must not be a major either.

Ben Hogan skipped the British Open every year except 1953. He didn't even bother to return to defend his title. I guess that tournament is meaningless too. Kenny Perry skipped the 2008 U.S. Open, despite being healthy and on a winning streak. I guess the U.S. Open isn't a major either. Do we really have any majors that aren't played at TPC Boston?

EDIT: I can't believe I responded to a troll - I suck.

Yeah, I'm starting to realize that this thread is a trolling attempt. Does the OP plan to post anywhere else?

[ptodd]

Yeah, I'm starting to realize that this thread is a trolling attempt.

This is not an attempt at trolling, which I had to look up before I responded to you. Many people including the Golf writer John Hopkins have taken issue with the fact that there are 3 majors based in the US. However most of those people do not live in the US or write for US publications. Therefore this may seem to come out of left field to you. I do not believe what I suggested is that offensive or inane based on my experiences living and growing up outside of the US.

Lee Trevino skipped the Masters a few times. That must not be a major either.

Ben Hogan skipped the British Open every year except 1953. He didn't even bother to return to defend his title. I guess that tournament is meaningless too. Kenny Perry skipped the 2008 U.S. Open, despite being healthy and on a winning streak. I guess the U.S. Open isn't a major either. Do we really have any majors that aren't played at TPC Boston?

Of course different players at different times have skipped big tournaments. But during the 60's 70's and the 80's many of the top European pros including the winners of the order of merit did not play in the PGA. This was also the case during the 1950's of the open championship. And many have rightfully said that those victories were not quite up to the luster of later championships when the top American pros played.

They've also won majors disproportionate to their count in the top 100. Furthermore, why count the top 100, instead of the top 50, top 64, top 125, etc? Bryce Molder is currently in the top 100. Good player? Yep. How much of a chance do you think he has of winning a major this year?

I am not sure that is the case minus tiger. Right now there are 15 American players in the top 50 minus tiger they have won 6 majors. Africa and Australia and Asia have won 11 majors with 13 players in the top 50.

[jamo]

Of course different players at different times have skipped big tournaments. But during the 60's 70's and the 80's many of the top European pros including the winners of the order of merit did not play in the PGA. This was also the case during the 1950's of the open championship. And many have rightfully said that those victories were not quite up to the luster of later championships when the top American pros played.

And that was in the '60s, '70s, and '80s. How many people do that now, besides Kenny Perry, would had a clear agenda to skip all of the majors.

I am not sure that is the case minus tiger. Right now there are 15 American players in the top 50 minus tiger they have won 6 majors. Africa and Australia and Asia have won 11 majors with 13 players in the top 50.

Minus Tiger, you can't do that, Tiger is an American. Not to mention the USA is 1 country, while Africa, Australia, and Asia comprise three continents.

[ptodd]

Not to mention the USA is 1 country, while Africa, Australia, and Asia comprise three continents.

Thats exactly why they should have a major. It seems the PGA tour is behind the LPGA on this one as the LPGA commissioner is considering a Womens major in Asia.

[Randy4h]

What if they held a "major" and no one came? Seems they tried a World Golf Championship in Australia in 2001, and had a hard time finding enough qualified players. Other attempts to hold the WGC overseas have been unsuccessful, and moved back to the US. If the vast majority of top players live in the U.S. and play the U.S. tour(whether or not their citizenship is elsewhere) why would they want to disrupt their schedule more than once a year to travel overseas? The British Open is a 2 week commitment already. Don't expect them to travel across the globe a 2nd time unless there is guaranteed money.

[lcfd42]

ptodd - Please tell me that you have something better to do with your life than sit behind a computer trying to rationalize moving a major that will never be moved by using numbers and statistics that really don't matter. Get a life and get onto a truely constuctive thread.
Good day Sir....

[ptodd]

What if they held a "major" and no one came? Seems they tried a World Golf Championship in Australia in 2001, and had a hard time finding enough qualified players. Other attempts to hold the WGC overseas have been unsuccessful, and moved back to the US. If the vast majority of top players live in the U.S. and play the U.S. tour(whether or not their citizenship is elsewhere) why would they want to disrupt their schedule more than once a year to travel overseas?

I think that is a great point Randy. But I think that the fact that it would be a major would make it more likely that the top players would show. Certainly all the top non US players would show as they all go overseas to play on their respective home country tours. Ernie plays the sunshine tour Ogilvy plays the Aussie tour and Paul Casey plays the Euro tour. You would probably see some US players such as KP, David Toms and a few others not make the trip. I think we can look at events such as the HSBC which has drawn great fields and has abolished appearance fees last year and still had a stellar field. So I think the top Americans are less averse to travel now then 2001.

[ptodd]

Please tell me that you have something better to do with your life than sit behind a computer trying to rationalize moving a major that will never be moved by using numbers and statistics that really don't matter. Get a life and get onto a truely constuctive thread. Good day Sir....

Judging by your avatar you probably think that the US open goes to a different country every time it’s played at Pinehurst or anywhere south of the Mason Dixon line. But as we can see Golf is moving in this international direction and in the not too distant future I believe there might be even be something resembling a world tour. The PGA tour just announced a new in Malaysia. Heavens to Betsy maybe the John Deere will go the way of the Dodo.

[iacas]

This whole thread is stupid.

Closed.