My argument

[iacas]

iacas, I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "b", and the conclusions you are drawing from it.

I think I was pretty clear in stating what I meant by b. Someone with an illness that prevented them from swinging a golf club at north of 50 MPH would be ineligible. Someone with vertigo and no sense of balance would be ineligible. Parkinson's, a missing left arm, a guy with a gland issue who couldn't get down to less than 400 pounds... etc.

There is an undenyable degregation that takes place in a player's ability to score as they get older, for example, Jack Nicklaus will never be able to play again like he did in the 1970's.

Refuted by someone else, but Jack can still "hit the ball as well as a PGA Tour player." He's just closer to Corey Pavin's swing speed than he was before. And "old age" meets the "b" criteria for exclusion, anyway.

I bring up age to show that our ability to do physical things changes with time, there is a ceiling past which point you can never reach, no matter how hard you practice. It's not pessimism to say there is a ceiling to our natural abilities, it's truth. It seems to me that you are saying there is no ceiling as long as you don't have a physical disability, but I could be misunderstanding you.

Yeah, but you missed out on the fact that I'd say that old age is a physical disability (at a certain point). Tom Watson isn't there yet. Jack, frankly, isn't there yet either. But if Jack was a blank slate, yeah, we'd run out of time before we could get a 70 YO to hit the ball "as well as a Tour player." Again, my point is more theoretical, because we've likely never come close to approaching a perfect blend of a, b, c, and d.

And my point is that some of us simply don't have the necessarily level of physical coordination in the first place, never mind what happens with the aging process.

Again, I allowed for that (your lack of timing).

Some people who are perfectly healthy and in decent physical shape still lack the muscular coordination that a pro level golf swing requires.

That I don't agree with. Not at all. Tim Herron's on the PGA Tour. So is Corey Pavin, John Daly, and Tiger Woods. All different body types play the PGA Tour. I specifically spoke to this when I said within one standard deviation of normal (including the ability to get there). If you took your 20-year-old self and trained yourself properly, you could hit the ball as well as a PGA Tour player if you got a really good blend of a, c, and d.

Again, you (currently) fail condition "b" so far as I know. I never suggested some 80-year old guy who weighs 75 pounds and who's got muscular dystrophy could hit the ball as well as a PGA Tour player. And I don't even think it's a real world question, because again we can't possibly test it or get close enough to "perfect" with a, c, and d that we could do it. It's a theoretical question, to me.

[Shanks A Million]

I think I was pretty clear in stating what I meant by b. Someone with an illness that prevented them from swinging a golf club at north of 50 MPH would be ineligible. Someone with vertigo and no sense of balance would be ineligible. Parkinson's, a missing left arm, a guy with a gland issue who couldn't get down to less than 400 pounds... etc.

That's quite true, but there are even some who overcome disability to play quite well, and that impresses me even more so. Former tour pro Jack Newton lost his arm to an aircraft propeller, but he got back out there and plays to a 5 handicap. It takes a combination of talent, drive, and most of all, practice. Without relentless practice, even the greatest talent is useless.

[jamo]

My thoughts: I think most (I'll say 70%, but that's completely arbitrary) people can hit a golf ball as well as a TOUR player. There are some people (that 30% left over) who have no semblance of athletic ability. I know people who are bad at every other sport, and would be bad at golf. They lack the basic hand-eye coordination and physicality to do most athletic things, and many of these people are people who have never done anything atheltic in their lives, and by the time they get to say, 40 YO (again, arbitrary), it just gets hard to teach their body. I'm sure there are counter-examples, but there are counter-examples for everything. As for the 70%, they can do it. As frustrating as golf can be, people can be taught to do 1 thing well.

[JetFan1983]

Can anyone hit a golf ball like a pro under standard life conditions? Definitely... At least I hope so since that's what I'm trying do!!!

[WUTiger]

If someone really has the potential to be a pro, they're not asking for advice on a golf forum - someone has probably already noticed them and is talking about scholarships.

From my high school days as a caddie, I would say that TALENT + {PRACTICE ↔ IMPROVEMENT PLAN} + LUCK = PRO CAREER. Most pros, either on tour or at the local country club, have talent... better balance and coordination than most of us. Practice gets their game honed, along with an improvement plan to shore up areas where they lack natural advantage. Then there's luck - or absence of bad luck - can they play golf and go through life without getting seriously injured.

Plenty of twenty-something club assistants could shoot 2-under on occasion, but could they do it on strange courses week after week? Most had a tragic flaw in their game - poor lag putting, bad sand game, persistent naughty driver - which kept them from making the big time.