Sean Foley on "Compressing the Ball"

[iacas]

No, this won't end well.

Last week on the Fan 590 radio’s golf show, Fairways, which airs at an ungodly early hour, had Sean Foley, a regular correspondent and swing coach to Sean O’Hair and Stephen Ames, on to talk about “compressing” the golf ball. Bob Weeks was also on the show, and asked Foley what compression entails:

Weeks: When the ball actually compresses, what actually happens Sean? The ball actually squishes and sort of expands again?

Uhhhhh....

P.S. It's lame to blame the baby. Who does that? Particularly when he's also wrong about baseballs. P.P.S. Sean Foley's teaching Sean O'Hair a very S&T-type; swing. Very. He's asked Mike/Andy a ton of questions. But why he said the bit about the air is beyond me... I like the guy overall, but I don't know much about him and this doesn't help!

[nike_golf]

I was literally chuckling as I read that.

Holy cow.

[senorchipotle]

golf balls have seams?

[sean_miller]

golf balls have seams?

Duh - only surlyn balls have seams. Balata balls didn't need seams to let the air out since they're more porous - like an egg shell. Geeze.

[zeg]

Well, I think they do have seams---I think the core is solid, then the outer layers are assembled from hemispheres that are joined using some magical technology. On some balls I think you can identify a little ridge where the cover is joined, but that might be my memory playing tricks on me. I'd imagine on "good" balls, the post-production finishing process wipes that pretty clean, though.

But, I'm having trouble believing that significant air could whoosh out of that seam without catastrophically altering the ball in the process. If anything, I'd expect the seam to be less porous than the rest of the ball, but I'd bet that pretty major technological innovation has gone to minimizing any difference between the seam and the rest of the material.

[Shanks A Million]

Ok, I'm the one here who works in sound, right? I can break this down.

Foley: Basically, obviously, part of what happens because a ball has seams and balls can be two-piece or three-piece, they are all three-piece now. So obviously when they are put together they are put together in pieces. So when you hear – you can really hear it with Sean and Stephen – is that when they really compress it they have a sound.

This is filler, babble from a man looking to fill time. Anyone with even a basic grasp of acoustics would turn red listening to this. It makes sense... sure... but it's highly convoluted. What he's trying to say is that multi ply material sounds different from solid material, and that more plies sound different than fewer. I think we all have the ability to grasp that concept.

Even Phil Mickelson said you always know where Sean O’Hair is on the driving range because of how solid he hits it.

Maybe, it's not impossible, but the quality of the strike is far less important than the individual timbre of the ball and club. At the PGA tour level, everyone is compressing the ball solidly, and there are plenty who have very high swing speeds. The individual make of ball and club, however, are still the most important factors in the sound when everyone is compressing the ball. If Mickelson could identify O'Hair solely based on sound, his ears would need to be nearly superhuman. I'm a savant, and I can't identify a golfer based on sound.

So the noise that it makes as it is going through the air, you know the distinct difference Bob from being out on tour when guys have the sound and they don’t. When they compress the ball, part of what is happening is the air is releasing from the inside of the ball out through the seams.

Um, no. The golf ball is a solid, it's compressed. This means the volume of material is reduced momentarily. I'm not an expert on physics, but I can almost assure you that air is not "rushing out of the seams" at impact. All materials can exist at different densities. This is why water expands when you boil it. It doesn't expand because it was full of air that is now rushing to get out.

That is part of the noise. It is kind of like when a baseball wraps around the barrel of the bat, when they have that tremendous crack. That is the air leaving out through the seams. That is part of it.

I don't quite know where this guy gets the idea that all objects are full of air. Maybe it's his own skull?

[nike_golf]

After reading this again, I can't help but think Sean was possibly "under the weather" on that particular early morning interview.

How can someone seriously believe that?

[Cussin hacker]

Balls are fused together and there is no way it can have enough air to make a noise on impact. You could hit a steel ball and its going to make a crack at impact also. Likely crack your driver to. I can't see were this guy is coming from. Maybe he's in the spirit world. I saw a bit on "How is Made" and it looked to me like the whole ball is coated with the cover materail then put in a press to form the dimples...so no seem in that process.

[Zeph]

The ball does not compress. The material is a solid mass, it can't compress more than it already is. What happens is the ball is deformed, which is why you see the ball expanding on the sides. The material that is squished during impact can't be compressed, so it will have to mode out to the sides.

[Ignorant]

The ball does not compress. The material is a solid mass, it can't compress more than it already is. What happens is the ball is deformed, which is why you see the ball expanding on the sides. The material that is squished during impact can't be compressed, so it will have to mode out to the sides.

Now there you are wrong. It is very true that a golf ball deforms at impact a lot but it definitively also compresses. A mere deformation would not be enough to create the smash factor (i.e. the ball speed is way bigger (appr. 1.4-1.6 times) at leaving from the club than the speed of the clubhead). Elastic materials like rubber and similars (e.g. polydibutadiene that is commonly used in modern golf balls) are easily compressed and further restored into the original shape.

[Shanks A Million]

Now there you are wrong. It is very true that a golf ball deforms at impact a lot but it definitively also compresses. A mere deformation would not be enough to create the smash factor (i.e. the ball speed is way bigger (appr. 1.4-1.6 times) at leaving from the club than the speed of the clubhead). Elastic materials like rubber and similars (e.g. polydibutadiene that is commonly used in modern golf balls) are easily compressed and further restored into the original shape.

Yeah, I was going to question that too. I would imagine that rubber would need to be compressed, then expanded again to store the necessary potential energy, then release it. Deformation does store energy, but if I'm not mistaken, it's released in other directions.

[nike_golf]

The ball does not compress. The material is a solid mass, it can't compress more than it already is. What happens is the ball is deformed, which is why you see the ball expanding on the sides. The material that is squished during impact can't be compressed, so it will have to mode out to the sides.

The inside part of the golf ball (mainly rubber like materials) is compressing.

Stretch out a rubber band. What happens when you let go? Similar philosophy when you strike a ball hard enough w/ a club. It compresses and then releases it's energy. That's why compressing the ball is so important. It equates to more distance.

[Saig55]

I know when I really swing hard, I release some air. I do get some funny looks and sometimes my playing partners hold their noses. You know, it's kinda like what this guy is saying. I believe it's full of hot air and it stinks. JMO

[Cussin hacker]

I know when I really swing hard, I release some air. I do get some funny looks and sometimes my playing partners hold their noses. You know, it's kinda like what this guy is saying. I believe it's full of hot air and it stinks. JMO

Thats it.....The guy is mistaking the ball releasing air through the seems when it is really the ball striker releasing gas out his arse. Very insightfull Saig55!! lol :o)

[pxc]

The ball does not compress. The material is a solid mass, it can't compress more than it already is. What happens is the ball is deformed, which is why you see the ball expanding on the sides. The material that is squished during impact can't be compressed, so it will have to mode out to the sides.

Everything can compress. Density doesn't have an absolute zero, at least not one that we can measure. If you threw a golf ball into a black hole and were somehow able to observe it I guarantee you that thing would compress to the point that it would no longer be visible.

[Deryck Griffith]

No, this won't end well.

Being that I am from Toronto, I think it's cool that you actually listen to the fan590 all the way in PA! Very cool. Fairways is a great show. Nevertheless, Sean is really making moves in the PGA with pros and his S&T;'ish teachings. Aside from his academy in FL, he also works closely with a local course here called Piper's Heath.

http://www.pipersheath.com/ All the pros and teachers at Piper's teach stacking over the ball, etc, like Sean does. You would love it there...anyway, I digress...his explanation on compression of the golf ball wasn't the best answer in history by any means...!

[sean_miller]

. . . If you threw a golf ball into a black hole and were somehow able to observe it . . .

Perhaps what Zeph was saying was that the flattening face of a golf ball is not entirely due to compression - there is some bulging here and there - at least some of it is displacement. Either way, the ball wants to return to it's original size and shape (until it's worn out and breaks into pieces).

Anyway, can you imagine the flight pattern of a ball designed to allow air to pass through the surface? I picture something between a valveless football and a wiffle ball. Poww!

[Zeph]

Does any scientific research exist on the subject?

How much does a ball compress and how much does it deform?

Compression means the total mass of the ball becomes more compressed and smaller in area, reduced volume. Deformation means the mass of the ball is deformed and moved, not reduced volume.
I'm no scientist, but I've read that compression of a golf ball is really more deformation.