Chipping: Downhill lie to uphill green

[RandomRaiderTTU]

Hey guys,

I've looked around the internet a little and haven't had a ton of luck finding what I'm looking for, so I'll give this place a shot and see what everyone's opinions are on the matter.

At my home course, typically there are some valleys around the green and hills/small berms around those. Chipping from down in the valley isn't much of a problem but here lately, I've been finding myself short-sided chips from a downhill lie going back to an elevated green (or at least same height as the hill/berm).

Now, part of the problem is I shouldn't be pin-hunting and getting short-sided in the first place, but I need some help on how to address these chips to get a decent shot at par.

I realize that downhill to uphill is difficult in its own right before adding in being short-sided, but I need something. Recently I've been just opening up my 54* (highest loft wedge I got), opening stance and giving it a flop. The issue is I can't seem to get a good bit of backspin and the ball just releases. This is all if I don't decide to decelerate on the way down (flub the chip) because I'm scared of going off the other side of the green.

Anyone got any good tips on how to attack these?

[sean_miller]

There are a lot of ways to play this shot. For one, if this is a typical shot at your course, you might want to consider getting a prober lob wedge and playing a higher spin ball. There a shots made with an opened up 60 degree wedge that you just can't reliably duplicate with a 54* wedge.

Having said this, are you sure the flop shot is always your best option? Did you ever try a bump and run with the upslope as your target? One thing to practice is using different clubs and targets until you can get the hill to kill the forward momemtum of the ball just enough for the ball to spill over the top of the hill, onto the green. Watch seniors play this shot into elevated greens, using their mid irons, and you'll see what I mean.

[Tifosinumerouno]

I just watched a "Playing Lessons" episode with Jerry Kelly, where he hit an above mentioned shot out of the trees onto an upsloped green, he hit the edge of the upslope, which bounced the ball up in the air, taking alot of the forward momentum out of the shot as well as much of the spin, so it landed softly and just rolled a little ways. That sounds like the best shot to try from there, if not, try the 60 or even 64* wedge to get the ball up into the air quicker.

By the way, Guns Up!

[double_j]

I concur - no need to get the ball in the air. Bump 'n run into the hill and let the ball roll onto the green. Trying to fly/flop it there is trouble.

As a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure that I've heard a number of times that the average golfer in general hits pitches/chips way too high in general. No need to fly if you can roll!

[RandomRaiderTTU]

Yeah, I suppose bumping into the hill is an option. Just that one requires some finesse as well. Have to hit the right spot or you risk wasting a shot there too.

I went to the range yesterday and worked on it. Seriously thinking about getting a 60* wedge, but that means giving up my 5wood and I don't like the idea of that. Thinking about going to a 4 wood and picking up the extra wedge.

Anyhow, I'll give the bump and runs a few shots and see how they work.

[delav]

I'll play devils advocate. As a 13 handicap, you've likely got a good amount of timing and finesse to your game. While a flop shot from this lie wouldn't always be a go-to, depending upon the upslope and pin position, it may be your best bet. As is likely obvious, catching such a shot clean is crucial due to the downhill lie. I'd work on playing with a slightly open stance with the ball back towards your right foot. Focus on keeping your weight shift and lower body relatively still and really "picking" the ball off of the turf. Keeping the center of your swing constant will help with contact consistency.

If you'd like, I've had a few drills recommended for isolating the lower body in these types of shots. Good luck!

[delav]

I'll play devils advocate. As a 13 handicap, you've likely got a good amount of timing and finesse to your game. While a flop shot from this lie wouldn't always be a go-to, depending upon the upslope and pin position, it may be your best bet. As is likely obvious, catching such a shot clean is crucial due to the downhill lie. I'd work on playing with a slightly open stance with the ball back towards your right foot. Focus on keeping your weight shift and lower body relatively still and really "picking" the ball off of the turf. Keeping the center of your swing constant will help with contact consistency.

If you'd like, I've had a few drills recommended for isolating the lower body in these types of shots. Good luck!

[Deryck Griffith]

I'll play devils advocate. As a 13 handicap, you've likely got a good amount of timing and finesse to your game. While a flop shot from this lie wouldn't always be a go-to, depending upon the upslope and pin position, it may be your best bet. As is likely obvious, catching such a shot clean is crucial due to the downhill lie. I'd work on playing with a slightly open stance with the ball back towards your right foot. Focus on keeping your weight shift and lower body relatively still and really "picking" the ball off of the turf. Keeping the center of your swing constant will help with contact consistency.

I would also suggest angling your shoulers with the slope of the downhill or uphill. The pros always talk about getting your shoulders parallel with the uphill or downhill slope which, beause of the shoulers being parallel to the downhill or uphill, helps with the angle of with the club.

There is a good video on youtube of phil mickelson hitting a flop shot on a severe uphill and during the shot, his back shoulder was WAY down to help with him get parallel with the severe upslope. Goodluck.

[delav]

I would also suggest angling your shoulers with the slope of the downhill or uphill. The pros always talk about getting your shoulders parallel with the uphill or downhill slope which, beause of the shoulers being parallel to the downhill or uphill, helps with the angle of with the club.

Great tip!

[zeg]

I concur - no need to get the ball in the air. Bump 'n run into the hill and let the ball roll onto the green. Trying to fly/flop it there is trouble.

Funny thing happened to me the last time I was out. Not quite the situation here, but I was on the wrong side of a small hill with the "corner" of the green right over the top of the hill, maybe 20 yards from where I was. The flag was very near that "corner", so I was going to have to stop in a hurry. My exacerbating condition wasn't a downhill lie, but rather complete hardpan around the base of a tree, basically forcing me to use my PW since my SW has 13 degrees of bounce and is pretty risky on that surface. Even with the PW, I hit ground first and quasi-skulled it, but much to my (pleasant!) surprise, the ball hit the base of the hill, skipped almost straight up, landed at the top of the hill and trickled down, maybe 10 feet below the pin. If I'd hit it up, I can almost guarantee I'd have had a 20-30 foot putt, because there was no way that ball was going to stop if it had flown. I actually made the putt for my first birdie in years.

So I'll cast a vote in favor of roll it over the hill.

[saevel25]

Downhill to shortside with green running away, just accept the 15 footer comming back. Unless you really pull of a miracle.
Downhill with green not running away, some hope

If there isn't much rough, putt it, or use a 3 wood to just pop it on the fringe. I like to match my shoulders to the slope of the hill as possible, keep weight on front foot. Just make a putter stroke. If i use a wedge, i try to slide the club under the ball going tangant to the ground.

Uphill is different, much easier i think. Still basic short game technique. Weight on front foot. Shoulders can go with slope. Sometimes i like to play the punch chip, just jam the club into the ground were the balls at and have it pop out, fred couples did that alot. Or you can take a less lofted club and swing with the slope of the ground and scoop the ball out, it will have no spin at all.

[iacas]

Stand facing the hole and the ball off the side of your right foot.

[jamo]

Hit it low, that way you don't have to be as exacting as you would if you wanted to flop it.

[tterrag]

Tilt shoulder to the slope of the hill. Next, open the club face and swing down the slope. Commit to the shot and the results will come.
Hope this helps,
Garrett

[RandomRaiderTTU]

Thanks for all the tips guys!!

When I went and practiced, I was setting my shoulders parallel, open stance, open face, and ball off back foot. It definitely helped.

Again, I'm fine with a 15 foot putt in that situation. It's the failure to commit to the shot and have a reliable shot for that situation that has frustrated me. Since practicing that for about 30 minutes, I do feel better about it.

I like what tterag said, commit to the shot. I think this has been my issue too with the deceleration. Focus, hit the shot and if I am off the front of the green, so be it, but I won't kill it into the hill.

Thanks again for all the replies guys. I'm going to work on it some more.