My Swing (delav)

[delav]

Hi Guys. I've been trying to sort out a strange move I make through the ball, and I thought I'd see if anyone here has some tips. I'm a decent player, and generally hit the ball very well. I lack absolute consistency in my ball striking, and I think it's due to my release and hips getting a bit stuck through the ball.

It's driving me nuts.

Since this video (feb) I've worked on my posture and backswing a bit, my takeaway is smoother and along the target line (club, hands and left arm on plane at top), without that wristy hiccup thing.

This is an 8-iron, shot pattern is a high draw ~160 yards.

Thanks!

[iacas]

Since this video (feb) I've worked on my posture and backswing a bit, my takeaway is smoother and along the target line (club, hands and left arm on plane at top), without that wristy hiccup thing.

The target line is not the plane. You roll your wrists and your hands move away from your body at the start of your swing. I'd worry about a lot of things before worrying about your hips.

[delav]

The target line is not the plane. You roll your wrists and your hands move away from your body at the start of your swing. I'd worry about a lot of things before worrying about your hips.

Thanks iacas. There seem to be different schools of thought on where the toe of the club should be at P2. What would you recommend working on most? Can you expand on my hands moving away from my body?

[KD Epic]

Can you expand on my hands moving away from my body?

I'm no expert, and would have never noticed had he not pointed it out -- hence my not being an expert -- but I think what he's talking about can best be seen at 0:00:59. Just before you swing you raise your hands and push them outward as soon as you begin your backswing.

If I'm wrong I'm wrong but that's what I saw. I'm the kind of guy that learns more from bad technique than good technique because I can more appropriately relate

[delav]

I'm no expert, and would have never noticed had he not pointed it out -- hence my not being an expert -- but I think what he's talking about can best be seen at 0:00:59. Just before you swing you raise your hands and push them outward as soon as you begin your backswing.

I think what iacas is referring to is my tendency to start my swing with my hands rather than my entire left side. I need to work on keeping my hands in front of my chest while widening my arc, rather than just pushing the club back from address.

[shortstop20]

You have a Nancy Lopez style start to the swing, you raise your hands up/push them out. She played well with this move, but most people won't/don't.

[delav]

You have a Nancy Lopez style start to the swing, you raise your hands up/push them out. She played well with this move, but most people won't/don't.

Yep, this video is from February, and that is one thing i've noticed and fixed since then by improving my posture at address and focusing on a more solid one piece take away. I'll try and get a new video up. Any other thoughts?

[Zeph]

Thanks iacas. There seem to be different schools of thought on where the toe of the club should be at P2. What would you recommend working on most? Can you expand on my hands moving away from my body?

Some advocate rolling the wrists so the club face is perpendicular to the ground at P2, but that will open the club face and you will have to roll it back to square at some point during the swing. An unnecessary move in my eyes. I would recommend keeping the club face square to the plane, which would mean the leading edge of the club head is angled somewhere around 45º from ground level at P2.

Your hands move quite a lot away from your body, which is, along with the club face angle, what you should start working on first. I've added a picture below comparing you to Charlie Wi. It's hard to see your club face angle there, but judging by how much we see of the back of your left hand, it is definitely on the other side of perpendicular to the ground than it should be. Your goal should be to reach a position like you see Charlie at here. I'd also suggest you don't lift the arms up, but keep the elbows close to your body. Those things will bring you on a better hand path and club plane. An important thing to add into this is the shoulders, they rotate too flat, which leads you to lifting the arms as opposed to rotating them. When standing at address, try to just rotate the shoulders on the same angle, getting the left shoulder down and under your chin. It is so high today that your head is pushed up and away from the ball. You should be able to look directly at the ball, like you do at address, through the entire swing.

[delav]

Zeph - I think you are right here. Thank you for that visual.

I'll hit a few buckets and play with the hands at P2. I've always been a player that has hand active hands through impact, but if I can keep my distance and improve my contact and consistency that would be tremendous.

I'm clearly too far inside at P2. I've been working on this since Feb when the video was shot, and will continue to do so.

Thanks again!

[iacas]

I think what iacas is referring to is my tendency to start my swing with my hands rather than my entire left side. I need to work on keeping my hands in front of my chest while widening my arc, rather than just pushing the club back from address.

You need to realize that the arc of your swing moves - again - back, up, and IN. Moving your hands back and up along the target line is a narrower arc than one.

We don't measure the arc from your body - the arc is measured from the ball, because it (ideally) sits on the perimeter of the arc. If we measured the arc from our bodies, you'd just swing your arm straight up and down. That'd produce a really long arc, too. But you can't play golf that way because the golf ball is situated on an entirely different plane - a plane that angles back, up, and IN.

I'm clearly too far inside at P2. I've been working on this since Feb when the video was shot, and will continue to do so.

The opposite. You're not too far inside - you're too far outside. Your clubhead is too far inside your hands, but in 3D space, it's right about where it should be. It's your hands that need the most fixing.

[delav]

Thanks. You've explained this very well.

[delav]

I wanted to post an update after a year of reading and learning. Thanks to many great threads here at The Sand Trap for helping me realize that there was a ton of work to do.

December of 2010



I've worked this year to get rid of my flip, get my hips through the ball, and focus on swing plane. Consistency is up, and playing is getting more fun.

I'm still working in general on getting things a bit deeper and steeper, and I'd really appreciate input from others here.

Thanks!

[cbrian]

Don't lose the pressure in your armpits. That will keep the arms from finishing the backswing rather than the shoulders. Deeper rather than higher.

Add pressure into the left foot during your backswing and keep the left knee bent longer. That will help the hips get to where they need to be.

[delav]

Don't lose the pressure in your armpits. That will keep the arms from finishing the backswing rather than the shoulders. Deeper rather than higher.

Thanks for this tip, I agree.

Add pressure into the left foot during your backswing and keep the left knee bent longer. That will help the hips get to where they need to be.

Can you expand on this?

[iacas]

"My First Project" eh? Someone's using iMovie...

Heh heh.

I've worked this year to get rid of my flip, get my hips through the ball, and focus on swing plane. Consistency is up, and playing is getting more fun.

delav, I know you're not a big S&T; fan, but I'm not giving you a pure S&T; lesson here because you already do a lot of the S&T; things well. The list of things you do well is actually a good bit longer than the list of things you don't do well (forward, hand depth)

Image 1: Image 2: Image 3: Image 1

• Picture 1 shows your setup. Nothing to see here. Elbow plane, butt wall, inclination and shoulders perpendicular line marked, head position marked.
• Picture 2 shows your P4. As you can see, good hip turn, hips on their inclined plane, right knee straightened but not locked, shoulders have turned in a circle around your spine, head has remained pretty well centered. I'll get back to the fact that your hands are so high later on.
• Picture 3 shows your initial move down. Note the position of the butt of the club/hands.
• Picture 4 is impact. Note how your butt's pulled off the wall and your upper back has flexed backwards to give you room.
• Picture 5 shows a post-impact position. Note the right knee. More on that later.

Picture 6 is the first image with green. You'll notice that as a good player you've done all you can to get the clubhead inside. Unfortunately this shifts the plane line well to the right - you're under the plane here. Picture 7 shows the continued right knee action but also the clubface, circled, which has rolled over quite a bit. Image 2

• Picture 1 shows your setup. Nearly stacked - I think this was three or four degrees of tilt back, and frankly, a lot of that is probably due to your ball position, which is too far back. Your ball position is okay if you're a lefty about to hit this ball to our left, but it's well back for a righty.
• Picture 2 Good to here, really. Pretty well still stacked.
• Picture 3 Head has dropped back a little to help you get to the ball. Forward movement of hips is minimal because if you moved forward a lot you'd swing over the top of the ball.
• Picture 4 Shows you aggressively rolling the forearms, which is REALLY tough to time. Also note that the hip has moved backwards. Note too the right foot.
• Picture 5 Shows again how much the club has rolled, the forearms have rolled, and that your hips have moved backwards again.
• I could have shown how you flip post-impact. At impact you've still got a flat left wrist, but it's gone VERY quickly after impact. Didn't see much point in that - you can pause the video and see it yourself.

Image 3 Four lines. Bright green is shaft/hands plane and is just there for the heck of it. Yellow is where you take your hands to the top, dark green is elbow plane, and orange is your impact shaft plane. Images 2 and 3 show this. Quickie Analysis The last frame in this third image shows the first of two things I'd work on with you, and the reason why I prefer more of a one-plane swing rather than the more complex motion you've got going right now. The arrows show the path the butt of the club takes. You'll note first the "drop into the slot" move where you actually gain a bit more depth than you had on your backswing and then you'll notice the goofiness around impact with the little figure 8 look. Ideally, you can deliver force from the top in as straight a line as possible to the ball (impact). Any force that's not in a straight line is wasted force, inefficient force, compensatory force. I'd work on this by feeling the pressure in your right armpit remaining and feeling the pressure point 4 - where your left arm contacts your chest - staying much lower and increasing pressure throughout the backswing, but primarily worry about not letting that pressure point rise up above your nipple. :) The second thing I'd work on is to go forward more. You'll want to keep your left knee flexed and driving down and forward more. Move the ball three inches farther forward, and practice with your ball off your left pinkie to to exaggerate the feeling of going forward to get the ball. Push your hips aggressively forward (driving the left knee down and forward - the down is more a feeling to retain the flex longer), BANK the right knee inward - don't let it bend in towards the ball and pop your heel off the ground - then tuck your butt beneath you, pinching your butt cheeks together. Slide forward, tuck the butt. Slide forward, tuck the butt. Here's a good drill for the right knee. Your knee pops in towards the ball, your hips get pulled in, your butt pulls off the wall... they're all tied together. So again, just two things really: 1) Increase the pressure throughout the backswing between your left arm and chest, and keep the pressure point from sliding above your nipple. This will get you the depth you clearly want (by your first move down, to go down and back). 2) Move the ball position forward (the ball position back is causing a fair number of issues), and push the hips forward longer on the downswing, then tuck your hips beneath you. Your belt buckle should feel that it goes FORWARD quite a bit and then points to the sky. 3) I'm adding a new third thing but it's easy. Your weight is back on your heels a bit too much. Stand a touch farther from the ball and have a bit more forward flex at the ankles to get your weight more over the centers of your feet. You might feel like it's almost to your toes for awhile, but you should be able to lift the heels and toes of both of your feet off the ground without swaying away or towards the golf ball, and you can't do that right now.

[motteler621]

good stuff Erik. Finally, Ive found someone who pulls their butt off the wall too, thanks delav, theres hope for me to reach single digits with that move,lol But then again that guy in the video Erik posted pulls his butt off the wall too and hes a low capper. It will get better if you do the work that Erik gave you, thats why that guy in the video is doing that drill or one of the main reasons why he is, It does a few things.

also put a driveway stick through your front belt loops so on the downswing your hips arent as closed at impact.

[iacas]

But then again that guy in the video Erik posted pulls his butt off the wall too and hes a low capper.

Mike works on that, but it's pretty good in that video. It's not really off the wall more than an inch or so.

also put a driveway stick through your front belt loops so on the downswing your hips arent as closed at impact.

That's a good drill for people who open up too much... It's not a great drill for someone whose hips are closed at impact... If your hips are open with the stick there your hands will hit the stick and rip your belt loop out or something.

[motteler621]

Mike works on that, but it's pretty good in that video. It's not really off the wall more than an inch or so.

yea I wasnt sure if he does it anymore or even did it that much in the first place, I just remember him saying he had problems with pulling his butt off the wall and those drills helped him.

That's a good drill for people who open up too much... It's not a great drill for someone whose hips are closed at impact... If your hips are open with the stick there your hands will hit the stick and rip your belt loop out or something.

yea thats what I meant. open too much. I had my wording backwards. It will help with pushing that right knee towards the ball on the downswing