Nice vid from Sean O'Hair

[iacas]

So is sean O'Hair's swing the stack and tilt?

It's quite a bit like what was described. It's not really like Anthony Kim's swing. How about some qualifications or specific examples?

I am sure there are variants, but i put Sean O'Hairs swing as just want modern athletic golfers are using. Anthony Kims is very similar, and so is Rory's, were you don't try to make it a point to move laterally left, but the natural shoulder turn is there, staying central in teh golf swing and using all rotation.

You seem to have missed the point that Sean DOES slide left quite a bit. It's not purely rotary.

Just found this article from Foley...

Yeah, very S&T.; Like I said, he's been asking Mike and Andy a ton of questions...

[starchuk]

Since Doral, O'Hair is working his hand path deeper and is now hitting a draw. He has alot of principles and I'm sure Andy is proud to see where O'Hair is today.

[$2 Nassau]

when you guys talk about an inside hand path, or getting your hands deep, how inside are we talking here? Can you point me to any images/videos to demonstrate this? Thanks in advance.

EDIT: nevermind, just found this. Did a google search and this was the first thing that popped up!

http://thesandtrap.com/forum/entries...ands-Explained

[PentaV1x]

Hey guys, one of my biggest problems was how inconsistent and thin my iron shots were. I wanted to take a divot with my iron shots and have the right ball flight and apex instead of a fluttering ball flight like I had when I was more of a picker. I just saw a sean o'hair video on youtube of him hitting an iron shot, I copied that at the range and was taking great divots and the ball flight really took off. Distance kind of dropped because I was just trying to take the right divot(right behind the ball) I was wondering how would this swing work with the driver off the tee?? I tried imitating this movement with my driver and I would hit these bullet shots as if I were hitting a knockdown shot with my driver. I play the ball off my left heel so anything would help because I really like sean o'hair's swing and couldn't care less that it's an adapted version of the S&T.; I just need some help off the tee with this kind of swing, I've heard that S&T; swing shouldn't be used off the tee. Could have heard wrong because I see alot of S&T; converters that have said that S&T; can be used off the tee.

[EverythingGolf]

Originally Posted by deronsizemore

Came across this today. Thought it may be beneficial for those having trouble with swaying in the backswing. He gives a pretty good explanation of what you should feel.

I know this is an old pots, but I thought O'hair was a S&T; player?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by EverythingGolf

I know this is an old pots, but I thought O'hair was a S&T; player?

He basically is. What he says he doesn't do he does do and he's almost as close to the S&T; model as anyone. Foley's simply told him some BS. :-P

This has been discussed. When you find an old thread, consider doing a search to see what others have said in the existing thread or others. My post on this page from May speaks to that...

[The Recreational Golfer]

I couldn't tell on a bet who is swinging à la S&T;, or with pieces of it, or whatever.

So which pros would be examples of not swinging like S&T;, not even close?

[mvmac]

S&T; is about turning, extending and tilting simultaneously to keep the head centered then push to lower center forward.  Also, to let the rear knee lose flexion so the hips and shoulders can turn on incline planes.  So basically, all players do these pieces but at different rates.  To me the player that is least S&T; is Paul Casey, doesn't lose much flexion in the rear knee, head moves right, arms come off the body, right heel comes off the ground early in the down swing, club head rolls thru impact.

[iacas]

Paul Casey's a good one. Rocco Mediate is another for somewhat different reasons.

[Brunogolf]

Isn't Sean's rotation through impact much different then the S&T; model though?  Not near the lateral hip slide that P&B; want from the their players.  After just joining this site why is there such an anit Sean Foley and his stable of players?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Brunogolf

Isn't Sean's rotation through impact much different then the S&T; model though?  Not near the lateral hip slide that P&B; want from the their players.  After just joining this site why is there such an anit Sean Foley and his stable of players?

What is "such an anit"? What did you mean to say? I personally support what Foley is teaching is players. I don't care that he's lying to them about what it is, but how much that truly bothers me can be measured on a scale that goes from "don't care at all" to "give it about four seconds of thought and move on."

Sean rotates a bit more but he slides his hips forward, drives his knee forward, etc. just as much as anyone else. You could argue he opens his hips too fast, which leads to some wipey, inconsistent contact and a path too far left. Not always, but from time to time.

What Sean says in the video is not what he does - and what he says about S&T; he gets wrong.

[Brunogolf]

Sorry it was read to be Anti.   I really don't see how he is lying though and isn't that a strong term to use?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Brunogolf

Sorry it was read to be Anti.   I really don't see how he is lying though and isn't that a strong term to use?

What Sean O'Hair demonstrates as S&T; is not S&T;, so if he heard that from Foley, it's inaccurate.

[shortstop20]

Originally Posted by Brunogolf

Sorry it was read to be Anti.   I really don't see how he is lying though and isn't that a strong term to use?

I wouldn't say he's lying, he's just ignorant of the subject. He obviously doesn't understand the S&T; pattern.

[Brunogolf]

Originally Posted by shortstop20

I wouldn't say he's lying, he's just ignorant of the subject. He obviously doesn't understand the S&T; pattern.

Wow I can't believe how little respect Foley is shown here, a lot of people get S&T; wrong because of the first Golf Digest article.  With Foley's early influence's in Mark Evershed it would be easy to assume that he would know the S&T; pattern probably better then even P&B; know it.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Brunogolf

Wow I can't believe how little respect Foley is shown here, a lot of people get S&T; wrong because of the first Golf Digest article. With Foley's early influence's in Mark Evershed it would be easy to assume that he would know the S&T; pattern probably better then even P&B; know it.

To the bold part, huh? Uh, methinks not. And I like Foley as an instructor and want him to succeed, particularly with Tiger.

But let's not be silly, now. And let's not overlook the tens or into the hundreds of hours Foley's spent asking Andy Plummer questions...

[Brunogolf]

What gets me about the Foley asking P&B; questions is that the S&T; camp acts like P&B; didn't benefit at all from the info coming back from Foley.  I mean his players do win at a much higher rate then any players under P&B;, infact hasn't it been a few years since a P&B; client won a full field event (meaning more then 3 players in the top 50).

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Brunogolf

What gets me about the Foley asking P&B; questions is that the S&T; camp acts like P&B; didn't benefit at all from the info coming back from Foley.

And what if the truth is that they got nothing back from him? That all he ever did was ask questions?

Foley's players started higher in the wins category, the OWGR, etc. If Mike and Andy announced that they were teaching Martin Kaymer, Luke Donald, and Lee Westwood tomorrow and they didn't do anything to change their swings for the next six months, would that make them better instructors just because their player won more?

Nope.

Hank Haney is still rated really highly as a teacher, but who does he teach on the PGA Tour anymore? What about David Leadbetter? Heck if I know.

But it's fine. You're a Canadian Foley-ite and that's fine. You've got more in common with me than you seem to realize. I don't care much about Foley as a person or anything like the 5% comments... Again, he teaches something I like and I want Tiger to do well. Good luck to them both. Between Foley's students and B/P's students, they teach 15-25 guys on the PGA Tour. I doubt three other teachers can combine to say that, let alone two (since B/P are basically the same guy).