Clones broke!!

[gmanuel25]

  sean_miller said:

Nobody would ever mistake that for a genuine P10G.

Maybe if they had a staff bag, tour visor, players towel, etc., and a commercial with a long bomber saying ..... "Son, I've hit flop shots farther than that!" Maybe then people might make the mistake.

[KD Epic]

  Kingfisher said:

Is this the only way you know how to debate, good sir?

Yes that's how I "debate" ... which is why I typed a lot more above it... Which, I suppose if we were to analyze how YOU "debate," from this snippit, would be:

[Takes one sentence he can argue with, then applies that sentence to the entire post and deflects] You're ridiculous. I don't understand why people like you care so much what clubs people use and what they believe about the clubs they use. If it works for them, great. If not, they're entitled to try something new. I would LOVE to have a set of name-brand irons but being as I'm a 20 year old college student who wants to still have a life I work as hard as I can to have a day or two off to play with the clubs I can afford. Go troll somewhere else my God.

[KD Epic]

  Kingfisher said:

Wow, Shanks, you've been busy huh? Clearly a touch worked-up about this thread.

Wow Kingfisher, clearly a touch worked-up about this thread.

[sean_miller]

  Jtjohns said:

Just for kicks, these are the clubs "clones" that are being referred to.

From the site:

Product Reviews Diamond Tour Golf Bought these to use at the practice range to accompany my Ping G-15's. They are almost perfect clones.. look, feel, distance etc. Both were custom built sets, and the workmanship was as strong here as with Ping. Just perfect clubs. I have put so much work in on them in the range, I will be buying another set at some point this golf season. Well worth the value.. I suspected when I bought these they would be similiar and not compare to my Ping G-15's hence I wasn't planning to take these to the course.. but in fact they hold up to the Ping standard. If I would have bought these first, I never would have gotten the much much more expensive G-15s! Rating: [5 of 5 Stars!] Is there even the remotest doubt what they're doing - they're even suggesting - with a "testemonial" - that people would be better off not buying the more expensive Ping G15s.

[golfro]

  sean_miller said:

From the site:

this is what i mean. another reason I am against this is because of the methods and biz practices some of these websites who sell clones use. A website (forgot the URL) that was floating around was actually selling golf clubs, named, branded, all as OEM clubs with OEM pictures...and in fine print (which was hidden btw within a review) stated that these are clones, branded as such, but "just as good, if not better quality". its bullshit if you ask me.

[Shanks A Million]

  shades9323 said:

Pings are now cast in China as well.

Yeah, I was gonna add that. Of course, Integra makes forged heads in the USA (which no OEM does), but those must be inferior, right?

[zeg]

  sean_miller said:

Is there even the remotest doubt what they're doing - they're even suggesting - with a "testemonial" - that people would be better off not buying the more expensive Ping G15s.

They are being up front that they are not Ping clubs. As long as they're not violating any patents or copyrights on the artistic elements, why is there a problem? I don't see that it's any worse than the BS TaylorMade spews about "our irons are better than any iron in your bag."

[delav]

  Shanks A Million said:

Yeah, I was gonna add that. Of course, Integra makes forged heads in the USA (which no OEM does), but those must be inferior, right?

Integra makes

one model of iron in the USA, and they look pretty cheese-ball. The rest are cast knock-offs and likely made in China. Also, USA forging isn't really a huge selling point in irons; most are forged in Japan. Do you drive an olds, buick or pontiac? Those are all primo US-made products too.

[Shanks A Million]

  zeg said:

They are being up front that they are not Ping clubs. As long as they're not violating any patents or copyrights on the artistic elements, why is there a problem? I don't see that it's any worse than the BS TaylorMade spews about "our irons are better than any iron in your bag."

Very true. I'm more upset by TaylorMade trying to sell lighter and longer shafts to a public that can barely handle the 44" shaft, let alone a 46.5" shaft. How many people do you know that can control a 46.5" shaft? I can't. I know Tiger doesn't think he can. Actually, only one tour pro I can think of does, and his name is Phil, and... oh yeah, he's 185th in driving accuracy, and 187th in distance from the fairway on misses. To put it plainly, he misses a lot, and when he does miss, he's one of the absolute worst at how far he misses by.

That, and delofting and lengthening irons and claiming they hit it farther. You mean, you mean? Your magical 5 iron with a 6 stamped on it hits the ball farther than my 6 iron? Wow!

  delav said:

Integra makes

Hit them and then tell me they look cheeseball. The stamps on those are much larger than the ones on the older models, so they do look ugly, but you will never find a club that feels softer.

Let me ask you this, would you rather your car made in the U.S., or China? The clones and the OEMs are made in the same factories in China.

[HytrewQasdfg]

  zeg said:

While the GigaGolf clubs are clearly made to look similar to various major manufacturer clubs, they're not attempting to deceive the buyer.

I was going to walk away from this thread, but I strongly disagree with this statement. What is the purpose of selling a club like this:

The only reason to do this is to try and establish some measure of equivalence between these two clubs in the mind of the consumer. That is what their entire sales pitch is about. Everything on their web site talks about "the same as"--the same factories as; the same metal as; the same technology as. It's all just a slick sales pitch to get you to compare their clubs to top end clubs. Why? So they can overcharge you. Compared to top-end clubs, clones seem like a deal. That's because they have manipulated you into comparing their clubs to higher quality clubs (apples to oranges). When you do an apples to apples comparison and compare clones to equivalent quality clubs, you find that clones are tremendously overpriced. Say you are a beginner and want an inexpensive golf set to get started with (Driver, woods, irons, wedges, putter, & bag). How much would a set of clone clubs run you? @Gigagolf: Driver: $75 - $130 #3 & #5 wood: $40 - $100 Irons - $150 - $300 Sand Wedge: $20 - $48 Putter: $29 - $40 Bag: $57 - $65 Headcovers: $22 - $44 (not included with woods or putter) So your cost for a full set from Gigagolf is somewhere between $393.00 & $727.00. Wow, when compared to buying new top-end clubs it seems like a deal, but that's the apples to oranges comparison. How do they stack up price wise when doing an apples to apples comparison--when you compare their prices to the price of purchasing new similar quality clubs? From Dick's website: Top Flite full set - $200 Nackalus full set - $250 Maxfli full set - $300 Tour Edge full set - $400 You get similar results at several retail vendor's sites. These clubs too are all made in the same factories, out of the same metal, and use the same technology as the big boys (just like the clones). This is the apples to apples comparison. Clone clubs full set: $393 - $727 Equivalent retail full set: $200 - $400 The bottom line is you don't get a deal when you purchase clone sets. You pay $200-$300 too much, because they manipulated you into comparing their clubs to the wrong level of clubs. That's a deceptive sales practice.

[delav]

  Shanks A Million said:

The clones and the OEMs are made in the same factories in China.

I think we may be getting terms crossed here... Perhaps we can shed a bit of light on this and dispel the myth that all clubs leave the same factory. In the cycling industry, large players will share production partners in Taiwan and China, however the low quality crap gets produced in totally different manufacturing facilities due to cost and quality control.

From what I've read, a counterfeit club is illegally made using a the same mold (whether stolen or produced illegally at the factory) with inferior materials. It is sold as the real thing, not as a "knock off." This can occur at the same facility manufacturing the OEM product if done illegally and unethically. A " clone " or " knock off " is something like the P10G or GX922, where the club looks very close to the real deal, but is made from a different mold and is typically reverse engineered. I know that many large-scale OEMs share manufacturing partners overseas, however, I have yet to read anything that suggests that the exact same factories produce B and C line clubs. From an overhead standpoint, doesn't it seem logical that clone/knock-off manufacturers would contract the cheapest manufacturing partner possible, likely not the same as the OEMs who enforce tighter quality control for processes and facilities? Outsourcing doesn't always mean low-quality slave labor, and I can only imagine that the quality demanded by the large OEMs creates operating costs for manufacturers that the clone/knock off companies simply can't afford given the cost of the clubs.

[nuck81]

  HytrewQasdfg said:

I was going to walk away from this thread, but I strongly disagree with this statement. What is the purpose of selling a club like this:

Is this a joke?

GigaGolf doesn;t even sell the P2 anymore. So there goes that. On their front page they say nothing about comparisons. In fact their top line says "Welcome to GigaGolf-Todays technology custom fit to your game" Real deceptive there, let me tell you. In fact on their entire website I don't see any comparisons to any other brand. Except for them saying they use high quality materials, and even higher quality shafts than most OEM's. This company is evil!! http://www.gigagolf.com/index.jsp You said yourself you play on P2 clones. Were you manipulated?

[HytrewQasdfg]

  nuck81 said:

You said yourself you play on P2 clones. Were you manipulated?

No I didn't. I said I played a model by Golfsmith called a P2. It is not a clone and looks nothing like a Ping (actually, someone said it does bear some resembles to a TM Rac, but imho it is a very superficial resemblence). Nothing so outlandish that it would suggest they are trying to fool anyone into thinking it was a TM much less a particular TM model.

As far as the joke? It looks like the joke is (I'm sorry to say) on whoever has purchased a clone set, because when you run the numbers (apples to apples) they are overpriced.

[nuck81]

  HytrewQasdfg said:

No I didn't. I said I played a model by Golfsmith called a P2. It is not a clone and looks nothing like a Ping (actually, someone said it does bear some resembles to a TM Rac, but imho it is a very superficial resemblence).

I bought a 5-SW for $130 and free shipping. I had the shaft fit for my heighth and the lie adusted by +2 for free. I thought it was a pretty good deal.

But what about all the manipulation on the website? Was I suckered in? I can't find it, care to point out where they are directly comparing to specific OEM models? Other than by saying they offer high quality clubs, and premium shafts?

[Shanks A Million]

  HytrewQasdfg said:

I was going to walk away from this thread, but I strongly disagree with this statement. What is the purpose of selling a club like this:

Your comparison falls to pieces when you consider the GigaGolf clubs are custom made to length, lie, and shaft flex, the OEM sets are not. Given what you just told me, I'd much rather get fitted clubs from GigaGolf than cheap pot metal OEM clubs from Dick's. Those $200-$400 sets you mentioned cannot be adjusted for lie or loft, and the shafts in them are uniflex. Considering I'm 3° upright and need an X shaft, I'd say they wouldn't fit me, what about you?

GigaGolf makes a great product, and most importantly, they are custom fitted. Custom fitting is, by far, the most important aspect of a golf club. If the lie and flex are wrong, don't expect to play well. Tom Wishon, one of the most respected club designers on the planet, disagrees with you as well. He thinks the fit is more important than the brand name.

[Kingfisher]

  Jtjohns said:

Just for kicks, these are the clubs "clones" that are being referred to.

If only you had simply mentioned from the get go that you had a broken ferrule you needed replacing!? Extolling the virtues of your rip-off pings was unecessary detail that has only served to increase the entertainment value and highlight the stubborness, nay naivety of a handful of forumers.

Since you are the OP, may I enquire as to why you're suddenly binning the rip-offs and are going genuine?

[Kingfisher]

  KD Epic said:

Yes that's how I "debate" ... which is why I typed a lot more above it... Which, I suppose if we were to analyze how YOU "debate," from this snippit, would be:

Hey junior, you're nothing but a whipper-snapper - probably never been kissed, kicked or run over? When you've lived a little and have something decent to say - not an infantile "STFU" - come back and play with the grown ups.

Anybody can afford a set of brand-name irons, regardless of whether you're a 20yr old student. The only thing is they may not be a brand new set of brand name irons. That is the main point that the haters here are trying to get across, that there are better options available than the rip-off clubs, not that anybody is looking down on somebody for playing what they play. The angle is, why use cheap and nasty rip-offs (this is what the OP was using, not component clubs) when you can have a branded / reliabe set. Ok, you'd better run along and go do some homework or something.

[Shanks A Million]

  Kingfisher said:

That is the main point that the haters here are trying to get across, that there are better options available than the rip-off clubs, not that anybody is looking down on somebody for playing what they play. The angle is, why use cheap and nasty rip-offs (this is what the OP was using, not component clubs) when you can have a branded / reliabe set.

Or maybe you can run along and learn to play to better than a 12 handicap, and quit worrying about what other people are playing.