Haney ruined Tiger's swing?

[Yukari]

I think Hank Haney's style of swing does not fit Tiger's natural swing. With Butch, Tiger missed mostly only one way and was able to compensate or correct it quickly. But since working with Haney, his misses are bi-directional. There is no way you can figure out what is going on when you are missing both directions.

Just hope Tiger forgets all Haney's mumble-jumble crap very soon and goes back to his old swing. Maybe, just maybe, Sean Foley is the guy to fix it.

[ghalfaire]

Probably foolish to respond to this since that is one of the more controversial comments in awhile. But Tiger won a lot of tournaments while working with Hank Haney so not sure why anyone would conclude that this is Tiger's problem today. I agree that Haney and Harmon have different swing philosophies. When a golfer is having Army problems (left-right, left-right) you can't really compensate as you say. But I doubt the "root cause" of Tiger's inconsistency can be solved by either Harmon or Haney or any other swing coach.

[elvis14]

Let's not blame Tiger's problems on Hank Haney and make no mistake, his swing is not 'ruined'. I don't like Tiger but I'm quite sure he'll find his game and climb his way back to the top before too long. His biggest issues are from the neck up and his second biggest issues are the injuries he's had (and he's not getting any younger). Who's Tiger's current coach, I think he should be blamed (yes, I know that he is his own coach right now).

[Radford Wooly]

A new set of eyes will help Tiger. It's not all the swing coaches fault, but he is getting paid to fix his swing. Tiger's problem is his swing, but mostly in his head. Foley needs to recognize that and go about fixing his mental game and then fixing his swing.

[Tiger Spuds]

All I'd say about this is.. you know how everyone always says that Tiger's C game was easily good enough to win, and win more often than anyone else on Tour?Well, Tiger was on his C game a lot more under Haney than he was under Butch.

[bwdial]

Before overhauling his swing, he needs to work on his short game. Tiger was always able to make up for misses with his touch around the greens, and that, as of late, seems to have completely abandoned him.

[golfro]

really...another one of these threads? to blame Tiger's downfall on Hank Haney is jsut downright silly. Its been said and I'll say it again, Tiger's swing is looking great. Even Harmon and many others have come forth and said its not the mechanics of his swing, its his brain. To undermine Haney and say he ruined Tiger's swing is just plain stupid. Like others have said, Tiger's career under Haney has been more successful with under Harmon.

Now that sh*ts hit the fan and he's playing like crap, suddenly Haney is to blame for all of it. He ruined Tiger's swing... laugh...

[JML22]

No haney is not to blame
Its tiger for not getting another swing coach
how do you not have a swing coach. I dont care how long you've been playing for or how good you are
you still need to practice properly

[Floger]

Tiger ruined Tigers swing. He rarely listened to Haney advice, although I agree some is odd, but even something as simple as keep your friggin melon still he ignored, dipping like 6" at times on the driver. But now Haneys advice seems to makes sense to him and has Stevie holding a club to remind him to keep his head still. WOW! REALLY? When you have as much on your mind as he does it doesnt matter who your teacher is. If had I just lost my kids and marriage I doubt I could hit it between 3 fairways much less in one.

[deronsizemore]

  Floger said:

Tiger ruined Tigers swing. He rarely listened to Haney advice, although I agree some is odd, but even something as simple as keep your friggin melon still he ignored, dipping like 6" at times on the driver. But now Haneys advice seems to makes sense to him and has Stevie holding a club to remind him to keep his head still. WOW! REALLY? When you have as much on your mind as he does it doesnt matter who your teacher is. If had I just lost my kids and marriage I doubt I could hit it between 3 fairways much less in one.

True, but Stevie holding the club next to Tiger's right ear is so his head doesn't move back away from the target on the backswing, not to keep it from dipping. Sure, he doesn't want it to dip down as much as he does either, but that's not what the club on the side of the head was intended to help.

[JML22]

ya at bridgestone he had a HUGEEE dip

[golfro]

  deronsizemore said:

True, but Stevie holding the club next to Tiger's right ear is so his head doesn't move back away from the target on the backswing, not to keep it from dipping. Sure, he doesn't want it to dip down as much as he does either, but that's not what the club on the side of the head was intended to help.

I watched an episode of lesson from the pros or whatever featuring Padraig and it was interesting how he mentioned that Tiger's dipping (to a certain extent i assume) is actually a great power move, and one he aspires to replicate with his swing. Its not so much the head dipping, but the overall body compressing down. Same goes for Anthony Kim when he mentions that one thing he focuses on is kind of pushing his butt down and planting his body down at the initial downswing.

I would think this goes for Tiger as well...I think he could benefit from not doing it SO much but I don't think head dipping is really much of an issue as people make it out to be. Now as far as his head moving sideways, thats a problem that needs to be fixed.

[JML22]

The thing with head dipping is
head dipping is just a visual thing that is usually caused by a spine angle change

[iacas]

  deronsizemore said:

True, but Stevie holding the club next to Tiger's right ear is so his head doesn't move back away from the target on the backswing, not to keep it from dipping. Sure, he doesn't want it to dip down as much as he does either, but that's not what the club on the side of the head was intended to help.

Yes, the less he translates off the ball the better, but there are other things to work on first, IMO. His hand path has a loop and he's simply proving that it's tough to play good golf with a loop. Tiger should also delay his jumping just a little so he can slide forward a bit more rather than spinning quite so early.

  JML22 said:

ya at bridgestone he had a HUGEEE dip

THE DIP DOESN'T MATTER! The DIP is fine! It's Tiger preparing to jump, just like a basketball player will lower his center of gravity before going up for a dunk.

  golfro said:

I watched an episode of lesson from the pros or whatever featuring Padraig and it was interesting how he mentioned that Tiger's dipping (to a certain extent i assume) is actually a great power move, and one he aspires to replicate with his swing.

Exactly! Padraig's got it!

  JML22 said:

The thing with head dipping is head dipping is just a visual thing that is usually caused by a spine angle change

Tiger's spine is constantly changing flex throughout the swing, as it is with all good players. His inclination to the ground changes slightly but who cares - the head dip is NOT A PROBLEM. It'd be worse if he "early extended" (which he also does but only fractionally and it's really close to impact).

[kafka01]

  JML22 said:

...

And you can practice properly, even without having a coach looking over your shoulder 24/7. I´m wondering if Arnold, Jack or Ben Hogan had a swing coach/fitness coach/mental coach/short game coach on speeddial 24/7.

They were pretty good at what they were doing back then, and they practiced a lot, so whats different nowadays, that you need a whole entourage of coaches to play a game of golf and beat the other guys... Maybe its the coaches who make you think you need them 24/7....... Ever thought about that?

[bwdial]

  kafka01 said:

And you can practice properly, even without having a coach looking over your shoulder 24/7. I´m wondering if Arnold, Jack or Ben Hogan had a swing coach/fitness coach/mental coach/short game coach on speeddial 24/7.

Excellent point.

[sean_miller]

  kafka01 said:

And you can practice properly, even without having a coach looking over your shoulder 24/7. I´m wondering if Arnold, Jack or Ben Hogan had a swing coach/fitness coach/mental coach/short game coach on speeddial 24/7.

Re Ben Hogan: do you know he didn't?

Re Arnie: He probably should have Re Jack: He worked very hard every spring with Jack Grout - like he was starting from scratch

[bwdial]

  sean_miller said:

Re Ben Hogan: do you know he didn't?

With Hogan's disposition, can you really imagine anyone micromanaging his swing without getting told to "go %^&* yourself!"? That, and Ben drove his own car to tournaments.

  sean_miller said:

Re Arnie: He probably should have

Or, someone could have tinkered with his swing when he was young and we would have never heard of him.

  sean_miller said:

Re Jack: He worked very hard every spring with Jack Grout - like he was starting from scratch

Not exactly 24/7.