Choking...

[TN94z]

  Shanks A Million said:

Then it's a mistake. Choking is when you go Dustin Johnson at the U.S. Open and shoot 82.

Okay. So when would you say it is just a poorly timed bad day and a choke?

I agree with your reply by the way...

[Shanks A Million]

  TN94z said:

Okay. So when would you say it is just a poorly timed bad day and a choke?

Choke is when the pressure is what causes it. Give an example, a person is playing well all day, and they end up taking a big lead. If they then proceed to change their style and blow that lead, they've choked, they let the pressure change what got them there. A bad day is just a bad day, they happen, but choking is when the day is good, but the result is bad.

Again, look at Tiger. He's the master of not choking. He'll bomb a drive 50 yards into the woods, and not even break a sweat. He just calmly walks to his ball, forgets the bad swing, and begins to focus on the next shot. He looks at every shot like it's a new game, the lie, the distance, everything. He is entirely concerned with what needs to be done, not where he is. His father was a green beret, and a vietnam vet. If you've know an elite soldier, you know they learn to block out all the outside noise and focus on the task at hand. That's how they survive. If they get caught up in details, they're dead. Tiger has that same mentality. I think after his father died, he's begun to lose that. He needs to find another guy, maybe a friend of his father (heck, I know a few vets who fit that mold, we all do) that can get him back into that mentality.

[misty_mountainhop]

  TN94z said:

I have always been kind of like this. I think people use the term way too loosely. But I really like Paradox's explanation and that has opened my mind a bit about the way I term the word.

I agree. However, the word is a bit of a problem for me; it's almost always used in such a disparaging way as if the person who "choked" is pathetic for maybe letting nerves get the better of him/her. And after all, it's not as if the user of the word wouldn't "choke" would they? It's not a phrase someone who'd been in such a position would use I'm sure.

[pittpanther]

What about Bubba's overtime shot into the water? Given the importance of the situation, wouldn't that be classified as a choke?

[TN94z]

  Shanks A Million said:

Choke is when the pressure is what causes it. Give an example, a person is playing well all day, and they end up taking a big lead. If they then proceed to change their style and blow that lead, they've choked, they let the pressure change what got them there. A bad day is just a bad day, they happen, but choking is when the day is good, but the result is bad.

Okay. It is just hard to determine if their style has changed unless they suddenly pull a driver when they usually use an iron or something. Tempo, grip pressure, etc....is hard to determine from watching them on tv...basically you can't tell how much pressure they are under. The Dustin debate....he started off bad which could have just meant that he was having a bad day. But the actions of not taking his time, and not going through his routine (when he walked up and just hit the chip instead of determining the best play) made his a choke. On the other hand, I get frustrated on the course at times in casual play and will just walk up and hit shots like that out of pure frustration and not choking...some of the "chokes" could be a result of frustration. Not is not my usual character, but it happens.

I guess this just depends on varying opinions of what you see and how you interpret the person 4 day play. Thanks for the replies.

  misty_mountainhop said:

I agree. However, the word is a bit of a problem for me; it's almost always used in such a disparaging way as if the person who "choked" is pathetic for maybe letting nerves get the better of him/her. And after all, it's not as if the user of the word wouldn't "choke" would they? It's not a phrase someone who'd been in such a position would use I'm sure.

Me too. It is used in a derogatory manner and that is what gets to me.

[Cornbread]

  TN94z said:

So during the PGA today, my cousin and I started talking about choking. He says that all pros on the tour choke and the win comes from the golfer that chokes the least amount. I think this is quite extreme because I don't think having a bad day is necessarily choking.

Ask Nick Whatney !

[westcyderydin]

yea bubbas water shot could be classified as a bit of a choke... he should have gone for the part of the green with fairway in front of it. there was no way that kaymer was gonna hit the ball close from the cabbage he was in. if anything you need to hit a good shot to put pressure on him to do to much out of that lie.

but in the heat of the moment bubba decided to go for the pin and came up 35 yards short. he said he was playing for a flyer lie and didnt get it, but i think he just caught it a little fat. so id say there the pressure affected his decision making...so probly a choke.

[jamo]

Choking- Phil at Winged Foot, Watney yesterday, DJ at the US Open, Van De Velde, Paddy at Carnoustie (except he won), Norman numerous times.

Not Choking- Rocco at Torry, DiMarco at the Masters, Nicklaus when he lost the British (I think it was the British) to Watson. They just got plain outplayed.

[DBeane]

I think anyone who would say "He choked" is looking to get smoted by the golf gods. I'm pretty much an atheist and even I know that the golf gods (however you may define them), are individuals with whom one does not screw -Selah

-Beane

[whatwhatwhat]

Ok I will give you an example of a choke and an unfortunate incident on an important hole from the same player. Harrington carnoustie final hole that was a choke he played well all day then on the final hole collapsed( then showed amazing mental strenght by winning playoff) harrington at firestone shootout with woods played well all day then got put on the clock on 15 and hit 2 bad shots (lay up and first chip in water) he played the next 3 holes 2 under I think, the difference is slight but noticeable both dj and nick choked both shot in the 80s on the final day and the previous 3 days they ran away from the field, telling me they were playing some of their best golf that week but nerves got to them