Rules: Using dew to line up a stroke

[Ignorant]

As we are rapidly approaching winter (at least on the Northern hemisphere) the mornings are getting chillier and chillier. Thus it is the case that there is dew on the ground in the mornings. Now, some people have a habit of lining up their feet and body by placing a club on the ground pointing towards the desired direction. Rule 8-2 states following:

8-2. Indicating Line of Play
a. Other Than on Putting Green
Except on the putting green, a player may have the line of play indicated to him by anyone, but no one may be positioned by the player on or close to the line or an extension of the line beyond the hole while the stroke is being made. Any mark placed by the player or with his knowledge to indicate the line must be removed before the stroke is made .

What about the mark left in the dew by the club placed on the ground and subsequently lifted before the stroke? Must that be wiped off?

[8.5_Drive]

Really? REALLY?

No.

[Ignorant]

Really? REALLY?

Would You care to justify Your answer?

[8.5_Drive]

No. Ima be ignorant

[$2 Nassau]

Now, some people have a habit of lining up their feet and body by placing a club on the ground pointing towards the desired direction.

What do you mean? I've never seen this. Are you saying you've seen people, while playing a round of golf, lay a club down to help with their alignment?

As we are rapidly approaching winter (at least on the Northern hemisphere) the mornings are getting chillier and chillier. Thus it is the case that there is dew on the ground in the mornings. Now, some people have a habit of lining up their feet and body by placing a club on the ground pointing towards the desired direction. Rule 8-2 states following:

Regarding your original post, the rule appears to have 2 main parts (bolded): First part is a mark placed by the player...so you are good in that respect because you did not make that mark, another player did. The second part..."with your knowledge" -I think you are good there as well, unless you somehow spoke to the group in front of you and asked them to roll a bunch of balls towards the hole from various spots on the green so you can see the breaks.

Edit, wait hold on - I assumed this was a ball line in the dew on the green. just saw your last sentence...so who put the club on the ground and left the mark, you or another player?

[Paradox]

I might be totally wrong but I think he is talking about something like...you stand beside your ball and "address" then back off and you can look at your footprints and a club print(though I doubt this would tell you anything because its so small).

I don't think this is what the rule covers, though. I think the intention is some kind of visual aid that remains during the stroke like a club on the ground or telling someone "go stand back there so I can aim towards you" or anything else like that. Dew on the ground is a natural occurence and can't possibly be controlled by the player.

[Ignorant]

What do you mean? I've never seen this. Are you saying you've seen people, while playing a round of golf, lay a club down to help with their alignment?

Precisely. Some people do that but only on the tee, never seen it happen elsewhere. The purpose is to align the feet towards the target.

What do you mean? I've never seen this. Are you Regarding your original post, the rule appears to have 2 main parts (bolded): First part is a mark placed by the player...so you are good in that respect because you did not make that mark, another player did. The second part..."with your knowledge" -I think you are good there as well, unless you somehow spoke to the group in front of you and asked them to roll a bunch of balls towards the hole from various spots on the green so you can see the breaks.

By the player.

What I was thinking is that as the club has to be picked up before the stroke and no mark is allowed to be left on the ground either, so how to treat the mark on the ground created by the club in the dew? Edit: The club leaves a long and straight line on the ground which IMO definitively helps the alignment of feet and also helps aiming in general.

[the steam train]

Dew is a natural occurrence, but I'm quite sure drawing a line in the dirt to aid in your alignment would be against the rules of golf and dirt is a natural occurrence too. So I'm quite happy so say that if someone intentionally drew a line in the morning dew they would fall afoul of the rules, if by chance the dew created a pattern that was useful to your eye then so be it.

[Arthur]

Have you checked the decisions on the rules of golf? Seems to be the spirit of the law that you would need to wipe out the line left by the club as that does leave a mark to help with alignment. However, not having a book on the Decisions I can't say what the ruling is with any authority.

[Zeph]

If a slim tree coincidently fall its shadow on your putting line, you have to chop it down.

[Fourputt]

Yes you would have to remove any such mark left behind by the club. That is no different from scratching a mark on the green to indicate the line. The line was created by your act and thus is in breach of Rule 8-2b.

If a slim tree coincidently fall its shadow on your putting line, you have to chop it down.

Only if you planted it there for that purpose.

[iacas]

Only if you planted it there for that purpose.

Hmmmm.... that might explain why so many courses have so many gosh darned trees...

[Ignorant]

Yes you would have to remove any such mark left behind by the club.

Even though I agree with You I want to challenge that a bit.

The mark left by the club may not be an intentional act. The player may not realize there might be an assisting mark on the ground as that was not his intention. Scratching a line is done on purpose, using a club to indicate the line of play is completely ok by the Rules and the mark left in the dew is a mere consequence. So, is there any relevance if the act is on purpose or just by chance 'as the dew happens to be there' ? And as the player realizes there is a direct line in the dew indicating his line of play, is he compelled to smudge the line in order to avoid penalties? IMO leaving the mark on the ground would be against the spirit of this particular Rule as the player has all the options smearing the mark or not placing his club on the ground knowing there will be a mark that could be interpreted as a violation of Rule 8-2a (we are not on the putting green now, so not 8-2b. On the putting green the club itself on the ground would be a violation).

[$2 Nassau]

on sunday morning I had a rather straight putt on the first hole for birdie, about 12 feet maybe. we had yet to pull the flag and the sun cast a shadow on the flagstick from the hole right to my ball. Considered asking my playing partner to tend the flag for me on that 12 footer. LOL.

pulled the putt left btw.

[iacas]

Even though I agree with You I want to challenge that a bit.

Intent is only a factor when a player "intends" to strike the golf ball in making a stroke.

Whether the player "intended" to leave the mark or not is irrelevant. He can be penalized, and if he was, I'm guessing he'd be aware of the rule in the future.

[Fourputt]

Even though I agree with You I want to challenge that a bit.

Placing the club on the ground was an intentional act. The line left in the dew is the result of that intentional act, even if the player was unaware of that possibility beforehand. Rule 8-2b says "

A mark must not be placed anywhere to indicate a line for putting. " It says nothing about intent before or after the fact. That should be pretty clear to anyone. I don't see any question... he eradicates the line in the dew or he takes the penalty.

[Ignorant]

Placing the club on the ground was an intentional act. The line left in the dew is the result of that intentional act, even if the player was unaware of that possibility beforehand. Rule 8-2b says "

Good. My thoughts exactly. Thanks!

[TheGeekGolfer]

I read this post relating to what Matt Kuchar does when he lines up his putt. He is behind it on his line and lays the putter down on the ground so the shaft is pointing from himself to the ball. That would leave a nice line in the 'dew' and allow you to line up your putt quite well. IMHO what's the big deal? You can line up your logo or line on the ball to indicate your line? I guess there's a bit of difference, since the line by the shaft is much longer.