Orange Whip Training Aid

[Zeph]

Anyone tried this, or something similar?

http://www.orangewhiptrainer.com/ Just noticed it while looking at the Stan Utley website.

One of the most common errors I see students make is missing the proper release point of the swing. Because of the way the Orange Whip is balanced, and due to the flexible shaft, the device allows golfers to feel if their release is too early or too late…or, maybe just right!

So, the theory is that the more whippy (less flex), you are swinging, the better you feel the release. I'm sure if anyone picked up a horse whip, they would be able to whip it really hard right away. Making the transition from whippy to Regular or Stiff flex golf club is of course not apples and apples, but it might help.

As I'm writing this, I came to think about Brian Manzella (and others) using a towel to swing with, in order to find the proper feeling of not releasing early. I guess you could make something similar to the training aid with an old fishing rod or something.

[James_Black]

seems like a good training aid.
kinda like the old hickory shafts, it was all timing.

might try make one myself.

[iacas]

A study was done on when and where golfers reached the highest clubhead speeds.

Most higher handicappers reached maximum speed well before the ball.
Most mid/low handicappers reached maximum speed well after the ball.
The scratch and pro golfers reached maximum speed AT the ball.

So an early release is one thing, but a late release is still a flaw.

[Zeph]

What cause the different speed peak through the swing? What is a pro reaching maximum at the ball doing different from a mid handicapper reaching it after the ball?

Is it a result of when the arms are straight, holding flying wedges and lag, or something else? Probably a result of everything, but it would be interesting to know how they achieve max after the ball.
A guess from me would be the point where the left arm and shaft form a straight line. You can of course achieve different amount of speed, but talking only about where the peak happens.
A player with maximum speed behind the ball would achieve that straight line before the ball, so the club started losing speed as it come into the ball. Hitting max after the ball, having the straight line in front of the ball?

With a seemingly good impact position with the hands in front, can you still hit it with max speed after the ball? If you hit it with the lowpoint 3-4 inches in front, could it still not be released properly? Whatever we can call release.

[iacas]

What cause the different speed peak through the swing? What is a pro reaching maximum at the ball doing different from a mid handicapper reaching it after the ball?

Lag pressure is one. Basically, the better player simply "releases" (and by that I mean more of the true "pro" style release of energy, not rolling the clubface or your forearms over) the energy at the ball, not before or after it.

In TGM terms, the energy is released in the proper sequence (4123) and they release fully at the ball rather than later. The high handicapper releases things out of sequence, and the mid-to-low handicapper tends to release things in the right sequence but too late.

A guess from me would be the point where the left arm and shaft form a straight line. You can of course achieve different amount of speed, but talking only about where the peak happens.

No, because in the lower handicappers who reach speed after the ball they may still be cupping their left wrists slightly through the ball and yet achieving faster speeds after the ball, too. In a good player it's when the left arm is straight in line, typically, yes. But it's when other things happen too.

A player with maximum speed behind the ball would achieve that straight line before the ball, so the club started losing speed as it come into the ball. Hitting max after the ball, having the straight line in front of the ball?

Not necessarily. Think of your own swing. You don't fully release #4 by the time you get to impact. And your arm is straight inline with the club before impact, while your highest speed might be slightly after.

There's typically only one reason it happens earlier - the power accumulators are released prematurely and/or out of order. The ones that are too late release a bit to late.

With a seemingly good impact position with the hands in front, can you still hit it with max speed after the ball?

Not many PGA Tour players have a higher clubhead speed after the ball. Their max speed - even for balls hit off tees with no grass, like with the driver - is in a very small area at the ball.

Perhaps it would be fastest 3-4 inches ahead of the ball with an iron - we don't really know because they take a divot and the clubhead slows dramatically. But that 3-4 inches is barely outside of the small "at the ball" window I'm talking about anyway (the window is about four inches wide, from the start of the ball to about two inches past it). Think of it this way: if you're generating maximum speed after the ball, what's the point? You've not swung efficiently. Think of cracking a towel on someone's skin in the locker room or something... If you release it so the towel comes up short, they won't feel anything. If you release the energy too late, they've just got a towel gently hitting their buttcheek or thigh or whatever. Only when the energy is output to a specific point, a small area, does the cracked towel sting like a mofo.

[Zeph]

Think of cracking a towel on someone's skin in the locker room or something... If you release it so the towel comes up short, they won't feel anything. If you release the energy too late, they've just got a towel gently hitting their buttcheek or thigh or whatever. Only when the energy is output to a specific point, a small area, does the cracked towel sting like a mofo.

So what the pros do is get that crack which stings the most at the ball. That's kinda the point about this thread. I've always believed that the human body is able to make a golf swing perfectly natural, but we are doing it with equipment that is just not logical to our brain, so we do all sort of stuff. Anyone can crack a whip and be able to get a nice crack where they want, but when making that same motion in a golf swing, details have changed, so we are not able to do it.

I've been wanting to record some swings where I swing a whip, towel or something else at a pole. Trying to make it look similar to a golf swing, but without the club and ball. The goal being to find a feeling in a whip swing one can replicate in a golf swing.

[iacas]

I've been wanting to record some swings where I swing a whip, towel or something else at a pole. Trying to make it look similar to a golf swing, but without the club and ball. The goal being to find a feeling in a whip swing one can replicate in a golf swing.

Get a thick, heavy rope and tie a knot on the end, and cover it in something soft so that when it whips around it won't hurt you.

[Zeph]

How considerate of you.
Thanks man!

I did a quick test in my living room with a bath robe belt swinging at a corner of my wall. What I noticed was that the right wrist stayed bent, flipping it did not give more speed at all, rather losing some. When hitting it the hardest, I led with the lower body, and released #4 the fastest, always holding the flying wedge. It was really all about #4, and the faster the hips went, the more speed #4 got.

Didn't think about doing anything except hitting the wall as hard as I possibly can.

How is this affected by the shaft stiffness? Obviously, a high swing speed and regular shaft will be more whippy than with stiffer shafts. What happens when you go the other way, a low speed swing with too stiff shafts? Is the swing speed to low to keep the shaft bending through the swing, and resulting in the clubhead catching up with the handle prematurely? Can using too stiff shafts make it harder to get the maximum speed at the right place?

Would the following scenarions make an impact on the point where the speed is the highest? We put a club into Iron Byron.

70 mph speed (low) and X-stiff shafts.
100 mph speed (high) and senior shafts.

[iacas]

How is this affected by the shaft stiffness?

It isn't much.

I can shoot even par with my wife's clubs, and they're the typical thin-gripped, light, flexible clubs and shafts that you'd associate with women. I smooth out my tempo a little bit and soften the transition, but otherwise I don't swing any easier. I'm still giving it everything I've got down at the ball. The flexible shaft sends the ball higher. In my testing it's bull that a more flexible shaft will hook more or a stiffer shaft will lead to blocks. A stiffer shaft will lead to LOWER shots, but the blocks are because a player is doing something differently because he feels the shaft is stiffer. So, same idea, just a softer transition because I don't want to load the shaft at the transition - it'll feel "floppy" and the weight won't be where I expect it to be. Now, distances can change a bit depending on when a too-stiff or too-flexible shaft unloads, but almost any dispersion left or right is a result of the player doing something differently because he feels the weight of the clubhead and the flexing and loading of the shaft is different.

[Zeph]

Yeah, I don't mean missing it left and right. More if stiffer shafts will be harder to swing efficiently with a low swing speed. For someone with a good swing and swing speed (like you), hitting softer shafts is probably not a problem. Was thinking more about the other way around, low swing speed and stiff shaft.

That it will be harder to feel that flexing and loading with a stiffer shaft. Going back to the first post, where they use a very soft shaft, or a towel, or a whip. It seems to me that the softer the shaft or whatever you are swinging, the easier it is to feel the load and achieve good efficincy. A 70 mph swing speed is not of much use if it is 60 when you hit the ball. But is it harder to hit the ball at 70 mph with a 70 mph swing with a stiffer shaft?

Only thing I can think of being affected by shaft stiffness is how the loading feels in the hands. With a too stiff shaft, you are not able to load it properly. And without the feeling of loading it properly, it is harder to get the maximum speed at the ball.

Or am I way off here?

[tm22721]

My problem in generating an optimum release was that the computer was also trying to square up the clubhead at the same time. I can't do both without extensive practice.

So I gave up trying to square the clubhead, letting it freewheel into impact. I discovered that it squares itself so long as I LET it. The key was to to keep rotating the core and the clubhead releases low left instead of down the line. The hands do not roll over and acc 4 does not release until well into follow thru.

[JerseyThursday]

One of the best players at my club has one of these and swears by it. The main part of his warm up routine is the the orange whip (nice fluid swings back and forth). He says it helps him establish a good tempo. I think he said he paid $120 for it.