Tim Finchem should be worried

[shades9323]

No, how much?

More than your favorite NHL team.

[sean_miller]

More than your favorite NHL team.

I could ask how you know which team that is, but you're probably right. Not sure about Phil though.

[Chas]

bwdial: " Are you saying Americans - ooh, something shiny - have short - oh, that's catchy - um... what were we talking about?"

Splendid. The problem is that millions of people over here don't have a compelling, all-consuming interesting in the equivalent of a Royalty Family, one with centuries of history/tradition behind it. People here are at a loss, and therefore require constant and varied stimulation. Golf serves part of that need for many poor non-golfing souls, who deserve our sympathy and gratitude. Hollywood does a much better job mind you ....

What was this thread about again???

[Bigtank]

I could ask how you know which team that is, but you're probably right. Not sure about Phil though.

I saw an artical that stated that Phil w/ endoresments, partnerships, winnings and apperance fees he is worth an estimated 700 million

[jgreen85]

Idk. The US has some good young players as well. I'm sure Mcilroy is a big star, but is Westwood really an attraction the level of Tiger or Phil (don't forget about Phil)? Idk that Westwood and Kaymer have big followings (then again, I'm not European). I certainly enjoy Lee's game and would like to see him win a major, but I don't tune in to see him.

[Valleygolfer]

Idk. The US has some good young players as well. I'm sure Mcilroy is a big star, but is Westwood really an attraction the level of Tiger or Phil (don't forget about Phil)? Idk that Westwood and Kaymer have big followings (then again, I'm not European). I certainly enjoy Lee's game and would like to see him win a major, but I don't tune in to see him.

You are viewing this through America eyes. As you can see, the guys from Europe like their players just as much as we like ours, they feel the same way about Westwood, MciIroy and Kaymer. It looks to me they are tired of having an American player on the top and their players still not getting the respect they think their player deserves. It is just patriotism....and a little distain for America, is all.

[shades9323]

I could ask how you know which team that is, but you're probably right. Not sure about Phil though.

I have no idea who your favorite team is. That is why I said your favorite. The Maple Leafs lead the way with a valuation of $470 million.

[Plox]

probably my "favourite" too.

Was that an attempt to pick him up over the spelling? If so, fail.

[MSchott]

Which courses are you referring to exactly? And what do you mean by 'terrible sites'? No offense but unless your profession is Landscaping, I don't think you have the knowledge to make that assessment. I think the European courses are at least on par with the PGA's. PGA courses tend be very similar across the board. Flat and straight. Many have no character whatsoever and seem to me to have a very artificial feel. That's just my observation from watching every round of almost every PGA tour event this year.

The premise of this thread is that the PGA should be worried about the European tour taking over as the most popular golf tour in the world. that's preposterous. I'm not at all against the European Tour and watch some of it on The Golf Channel but they are light years apart in terms of popularity, courses and depth of field. Yes there are great courses in England at least in my perception many I've seen on TV seem to be on flat land and have been manufactured rather than using the existing land. I'll admit I don't have great knowledge and courses like Loch Lomond and Valderamma have their merit. However, the US tour plays some of the great courses in the world. Regular events are at Augusta, Riviera, Torrey Pines, Congressional, Colonial, PGA Sawgrass, Harbortown and majors play magnificent courses like Oakland Hills, Bethpage Black, Pebble Beach, Shinnecock, Pinehurst #2 and others. None of these are flat and boring. This is just your perception.

[mjtoal]

The premise of this thread is that the PGA should be worried about the European tour taking over as the most popular golf tour in the world. that's preposterous. I'm not at all against the European Tour and watch some of it on The Golf Channel but they are light years apart in terms of popularity, courses and depth of field. Yes there are great courses in England at least in my perception many I've seen on TV seem to be on flat land and have been manufactured rather than using the existing land. I'll admit I don't have great knowledge and courses like Loch Lomond and Valderamma have their merit. However, the US tour plays some of the great courses in the world. Regular events are at Augusta, Riviera, Torrey Pines, Congressional, Colonial, PGA Sawgrass, Harbortown and majors play magnificent courses like Oakland Hills, Bethpage Black, Pebble Beach, Shinnecock, Pinehurst #2 and others. None of these are flat and boring. This is just your perception.

I beg to differ on Torrey Pines. It is fairly flat and is most certainly a dull slog. Not anywhere near being a great golf course.

[MSchott]

I beg to differ on Torrey Pines. It is fairly flat and is most certainly a dull slog. Not anywhere near being a great golf course.

I've played the south course and somewhat agree but it's not flat in the traditional sense and many think it ranks pretty highly. It has a great location near the ocean and also the great canyons.

[Acropo]

The premise of this thread is that the PGA should be worried about the European tour taking over as the most popular golf tour in the world. that's preposterous.

Correct me if I am mistaken but I thought the premise is that the PGA Tour (not the PGA as such) should be worried that it is no longer streets ahead and pre-eminent and that the European Tour is getting stronger at just the same time that the sponsorship Dollars are getting harder to come by. One can agree or disagree if that is something to concern Mr Finchem but the PGA Tour's wealth and viewing figures have been built around one man and there does not, at the moment, seem to be a clearly-defined Plan B. Is it something for Finchem to be worried about or should he embrace the growth of the game across the world?

Personally, I think he should go with the second but it would be very much against past approach (World Tour anyone?) if he did.

However, the US tour plays some of the great courses in the world.

Well, yes it does, but it does NOT play ALL the world's great courses. Have a look at the Australian courses that will be highlighted over the next few weeks, for example.

Regular events are at Augusta,

REally? I thought it was only the Masters - a Major, with a Major (i.e., international) field - that was played at Augusta. When is the other, 'regular', tournament?

Riviera, Torrey Pines, Congressional, Colonial, PGA Sawgrass, Harbortown and majors play magnificent courses like Oakland Hills, Bethpage Black, Pebble Beach, Shinnecock, Pinehurst #2 and others. None of these are flat and boring. This is just your perception.

All fine courses, as you say. However, if one's only sight of them is on TV it can be very easy to get the impression that they are flat, as the TV has the tendency to flatten everything. Even Augusta looks quite gentle on the telly.

That may contribute to others' perceptions of the European Tour's courses, too. While I am in no way a fan of The Belfry, there are a lot of great courses around and they are not all in the US. Wentworth is now restored, after the rebuilding of the greens. All the courses used for the Dunhill Links championship at St Andrews are remarkable in their own right. St Omer, Penha Longa, Crans-sur-Sierre - all have something going for them. And dont tell me that Valderrama is not on a par with pretty much anything the PGA Tour plays on. Have a look in a few weeks' time at Leopard's Creek, as well - it's quite a cracker. One also laments for the courses which, for whatever reason, are no longer on the schedule. Sunningdale; Duke's Course at Woburn; St Mellion (though it may be coming back); Forest of Arden; Ware; La Manga (in the wind, especially); Fulford; Ashburnham (though there are bits that I cordially loathe - often the same bits others admire, strangely); Cinque Ports; etc, etc. And the Gulf courses just seem to get better every time I look. One thing they are not, though, is samey. The great US courses mentioned stand out particularly because they are NOT bomb-and-gouge courses; an awful lot of the regular season courses seem to require just one sort of play, one set of shots. What cannot be in doubt though is that the European Tour is the stronger for the players on it and it is no longer necessary for players to go to the US in order to be taken seriously.

[MSDOGS1976]

The level of competition (quality of golf) has improved on the Euro tour, and may now be about even with the US tour.

For the big boys, they really play a world tour schedule. Even though the 3 guys above call the European Tour their home tour, it's just where they play a base schedule. They will still play 10 or so tournaments over here. And I don't blame them. They want to stay close to families as much as possible, just like our guys do. But again, they still play a lot over here so they get the best of both worlds. Not much Finchem can do about it.

[RichF]

Seriously though, unless guys like Dustin Johnson, Rickie Fowler, Anthony Kim, Matt Kuchar and Hunter Mahan (and of course, Tiger's return) get things happening in 2011, the USA going to be stuck with the Furyks, Strickers of golf.

What a sobering thought.

[Valleygolfer]

Seriously though, unless guys like

and the Euro crew is just so exciting....unless Kaymer makes a Tiger like run, all fun you guys are going to have is looking at the blue sky trying to find the golf ball during your telecasts. Golf is golf. Unless you have a guy that makes consistent runs at the leader almost every time out, you have just regular golf tournaments no matter what country you are in.

[RichF]

and the Euro crew is just so exciting....unless Kaymer makes a Tiger like run, all fun you guys are going to have is looking at the blue sky trying to find the golf ball during your telecasts. Golf is golf. Unless you have a guy that makes consistent runs at the leader almost every time out, you have just regular golf tournaments no matter what country you are in.

Errr...yeah...ok.

[Chas]

I beg to differ on Torrey Pines. It is fairly flat and is most certainly a dull slog. Not anywhere near being a great golf course.

My dear Berkshire lad, have you ever actually played TP South?

Someone should tell Phil that the 13th is flat. He might beg to differ (4 approach shots from <100yds, below false front, pin in front ----> 4 over for the hole). I'm not saying it's hilly but it isn't exactly flat. And it most certainly isn't a "dull slog". If you get over here sometime I'll play a round with you there. If you still think it's a dull slog I'll buy you a pint of Stone Pale Ale on the 19th. p.s. where do you recommend in Berks or thereabouts (Surrey, Hants, Oxon)? I need some pointers for next time I'm over there.

[Chas]

One also laments for the courses which, for whatever reason, are no longer on the schedule. Sunningdale; Duke's Course at Woburn; St Mellion (though it may be coming back); Forest of Arden; Ware; La Manga (in the wind, especially); Fulford; Ashburnham (though there are bits that I cordially loathe - often the same bits others admire, strangely); Cinque Ports; etc, etc.

Why did Sunningdale get dropped (fond memories)? It was a fixture back in the day.