Two rules/etiquette things that came up today in our round.

[Naterater]

Hey all, first, I hope everyone is having a great start to the new year. During our round today, two rules issues came up today.

First: On the sixth hole (the first of the 3 money holes) everyone is on the green except for me. I'm about 12 feet from the pin about a foot off the green on the collar. Of the guys on the green, the furthest away is about thirty-five feet from the pin. I putted first of the four and drained it to force a carry over. When driving to the next tee, my buddy (the guy who was furthest away) said I played out of turn and that he was really the one away. So what is the right play here? I figured I was still away because even though I was closer to the pin, I still wasn't on the putting surface like the other three players.

Second: The other thing that came up had to do with "lift, clean, and place". It came to my attention only after the round was over, that one player in our group was commenting on the fact that I was doing that in the rough. He thinks that the rule only applies if your ball is in the fairway. I always thought that as long as the group has agreed that it's LCP, as long as you mark the position of your ball, you can do LCP anywhere on the course.

Thanks for the read, and any help.....

[jamo]

First: The rule is farthest from the pin, no matter if you are on the green, the fringe, in a bunker, etc... but a lot of people prefer to wait until everyone is on the green to putt so you don't have to keep pulling and replacing the pin.

Second: I'm pretty sure it's just the fairway, but defer to future posts to be positive, as I'm not 100% sure.

[NM Golf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naterater

Hey all, first, I hope everyone is having a great start to the new year. During our round today, two rules issues came up today.

First: On the sixth hole (the first of the 3 money holes) everyone is on the green except for me. I'm about 12 feet from the pin about a foot off the green on the collar. Of the guys on the green, the furthest away is about thirty-five feet from the pin. I putted first of the four and drained it to force a carry over. When driving to the next tee, my buddy (the guy who was furthest away) said I played out of turn and that he was really the one away. So what is the right play here? I figured I was still away because even though I was closer to the pin, I still wasn't on the putting surface like the other three players.

The person who is farthest from the hole has honors regardless of whether or not they are on or off the green. That being said, there is no penalty for playing out of turn. In match play though, if you play out of turn your opponent can make you replay your shot. In this case though it sounds like you are fine.

Quote:

Second: The other thing that came up had to do with "lift, clean, and place". It came to my attention only after the round was over, that one player in our group was commenting on the fact that I was doing that in the rough. He thinks that the rule only applies if your ball is in the fairway. I always thought that as long as the group has agreed that it's LCP, as long as you mark the position of your ball, you can do LCP anywhere on the course.

There are several ways to play lift, clean, and cheat. You need to make sure you get it straight before you tee off. In my group we sometimes play lift, clean, and place in your own fairway during the winter time. In some extreme cases where the course is in really poor shape, you can play lift, clean, and place through the green anywhere but those are rare. Again, it is up to you and your group to make sure everyone knows whats going on. Sounds to me like you and your group need to get the rules down before you tee it up.

[Naterater]

Damn, I feel like an ass now, all these years I've been playing the first situation incorrectly. Granted it wasn't match play, and I/we were playing "ready golf" as it was raining and pretty nasty out there today. As for the second, I agree, It should be something discussed before the first tee. That will definitely be done before our next outing. Thanks guys.

[ManofManyStangs]

Originally Posted by Naterater

Damn, I feel like an ass now, all these years I've been playing the first situation incorrectly. Granted it wasn't match play, and I/we were playing "ready golf" as it was raining and pretty nasty out there today. As for the second, I agree, It should be something discussed before the first tee. That will definitely be done before our next outing. Thanks guys.

Find some new golfing buddies. There is never a question raised in my foursome.

[Naterater]

Not a need of getting new golf buddies, just a need of playing the game correctly.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Naterater

Hey all, first, I hope everyone is having a great start to the new year. During our round today, two rules issues came up today.

First: I played out of turn  . . .

Second:  . . . "lift, clean, and place"  . . . I was doing that in the rough. He thinks that the rule only applies if your ball is in the fairway.

Your golf buddies sound very patient. You probably owe somebody some money.

[NM Golf]

Originally Posted by ManofManyStangs

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naterater

Damn, I feel like an ass now, all these years I've been playing the first situation incorrectly. Granted it wasn't match play, and I/we were playing "ready golf" as it was raining and pretty nasty out there today. As for the second, I agree, It should be something discussed before the first tee. That will definitely be done before our next outing. Thanks guys.

Find some new golfing buddies. There is never a question raised in my foursome.

I don't know about finding new golf buddies, their timing just sucks. His buddy should have called him on it the minute he saw him move his ball in the rough. When you are playing for money you have all the right in the world to question something that seems out of the ordinary.

[walk18]

Your golf buddies sound very patient. You probably owe somebody some money.

I'm curious as to how they were very patient. Because they didn't cuss him out immediately and wrap a putter around his head?

[sean_miller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by walk18

Your golf buddies sound very patient. You probably owe somebody some money.

I'm curious as to how they were very patient. Because they didn't cuss him out immediately and wrap a putter around his head?

It sounds like you've just answered your own question.

[CassinoNorth]

Complaining about playing out of turn in a round with your buddies is ridiculous IMO. Especially in that case. 95% of the time I'd do the exact same thing as you did.

[Naterater]

Man, with every post I read, it's like a stab to the gut. I respect this communities opinion a lot. I did win one third of the money out there, and did have low round(my best ever at that course by 2strokes btw). But now, it seems I should toss it. Because I played "lift,clean, and cheat". Damn, I'm pissed at myself.

[walk18]

Originally Posted by Naterater

Man, with every post I read, it's like a stab to the gut. I respect this communities opinion a lot. I did win one third of the money out there, and did have low round(my best ever at that course by 2strokes btw). But now, it seems I should toss it. Because I played "lift,clean, and cheat". Damn, I'm pissed at myself.

Buy 'em lunch or drinks next time if you really feel bad, or just apologize. At least from now on you'll all be on the same page.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Naterater

Man, with every post I read, it's like a stab to the gut. I respect this communities opinion a lot. I did win one third of the money out there, and did have low round(my best ever at that course by 2strokes btw). But now, it seems I should toss it. Because I played "lift,clean, and cheat". Damn, I'm pissed at myself.

If they didn't press the issue, it's because it didn't bother them too much. Just buy a round next time and let it go.

EDIT: old school minds think alike - walk18's post showed up after I hit "submit".

[Naterater]

Sounds like a smart plan guys. Thanks for the advice.

[2bGood]

I would not let it cut you up too much. At our course when they put lift clean in place into play, it is in all places through the green (rough included). It make sense on our track as it is tight so there a good chance you end up in the rough and our rough does not drain well unlike the fairways were we spent lots of money.

The thing with LCP is it is not standard that it is just on the fairway. The course needs to stipulate the rule. For all you know, you were in the right.

For the record I don't really believe the LCP is lift clean and cheat as some on this board argue. I know with out this rule during the winter my home course would be unplayable at times as you could have a mud ball once or twice a hole.

[zeg]

First one has been covered correctly---you were out of turn---but unless your opponent says something right there, there's no penalty or repercussion.  You have absolutely no reason to feel guilty or bad about that.  Playing it out of turn in that situation, particularly in bad weather, often makes more sense than wasting time fiddling with the pin.  Plus, with ready golf being the rule at so many courses, assuming that you'll play things out as quickly as possible is sensible.  If your group (with you included) feel it's more important to the match to play strokes in order, then someone should say something---reasonable golfers can disagree on this point.

For the second, there is no standard rule there.  The only official rule is that you can *always* LC&P; a plugged ball in the fairway or other closely mown areas, which is probably why your opponent believed the rule to be what he thought it was.  There's a specimen local rule that extends this to all areas through the green, but still only for plugged balls.  Winter rules / LC&P; for a ball that's not embedded is really outside the ordinary rules (but grudgingly accepted as necessary by the USGA), so it's something that needs to be agreed upon by the group or stated clearly by the committee---there really is no official standard for this.

Still, unless you were trying to deceive your opponents and hide your acts, if they didn't say something the first time you did this, you don't owe them anything beyond making sure to clarify the rules before the next time you go 'round.  It's as much their fault as yours.

This is why, IMO, it's so important to stick to THE rules, and why the rules lawyers out there are a valuable asset.  When local rules and shortcuts abound, disagreements and bad feelings are sure to accompany them.

[jamo]

Originally Posted by zeg

For the second, there is no standard rule there.  The only official rule is that you can *always* LC&P; a plugged ball in the fairway or other closely mown areas, which is probably why your opponent believed the rule to be what he thought it was.

That's replace as close as possible, correct?