Do you think really forgiving irons could actually hurt my game?

[tws1098]

Long story short...needed a cheap set of irons, bought some sumos for under $100, could they hurt my game?

Slightly longer version...I've used Pinemeadow irons, pro combos, MP52s, MP58s, 20+yr old Wilsons since I started playing 2 years ago.  This past weekend I shot 81 (43/38) with the Wilsons but only hit approx. 4 GIR. Last 3 times out over the past couple months have all been low 80s, could the Sumos actually make me worse (masking deficiencies that I have been correcting)?

PS. I'm not into working the ball, so no need to bring that up..straight-esk works for me.

Thanks

[CassinoNorth]

Then no it won't hurt your game if you can't work the ball.

[596]

I always wonder the opposite.  Can blades hurt my game?

I use Ping G10's.  I don't care if they mask anything.  I shoot low scores all the time. My current handicapp is 6.   My low is a 4 under 67.  If I play bad a day I'll shoot in the low 80's.  I don't think forgiving irons, game improvement irons, or whatever you wish to call them will hurt your game.    I can't really see them "hurting" anyones game.  I like to hit the ball straight and can work the ball left/right, right/left, high/low.....whatever.  GI irons can be worked if you want them to.

Its kind of like 40 years ago when tennis rackets had small heads, you either had a perfect swing or the ball went anywhere but where you wanted it to go.....then came "Prince", they made the first huge headed tennis rackets.  People with less then perfect form and a perfect swing could now play and win tennis matches.

Same with golf.  Who really cares if the GI irons mask a less the perfect swing or form?  If you score well, have fun and win, does it really matter if the swing and form are not perfect.  Trust me......my swing ain't perfect, but I have a low enough handicapp, allows me to have fun and win enough that I don't really care.  The only thing my GI iron swing does, is prevent me from posting my swing on this forum for fear of being laughed at : )

[max power]

No.  Both the idea that GI irons will mask or accentuate flaws in your swing and that blades are impossible to hit are products of internet hyperbole.  GI irons are more forgiving on mishits, and also vibrate a lot less on mishits.  But the sweet spot is still the sweet spot, and a toe or heel shot, fat or thin shot are still noticeable.  And the ball is still completely workable with GI irons.

I'm not saying there aren't differences, or that blades/player's irons aren't less forgiving than GI, because they are.  I play both kinds-heck, I played X-14 clones for nearly 10 years of occasional golf, and my next set was MacGregor MT-Pro M's.  Smaller and less forgiving than probably any other new club available, and all my shots certainly didn't feel as good as they did with the GI irons, but I my scores were about the same.  I put the same swing on the ball with the MacGregors or with my Mizuno MX-200s, and the ball reacts the same.

[enis750]

at a 14 index, its not going to "hurt" you

for me....yes....why???

even when i played my TM R9 TP's last year, i found they were inconsistent w yardages being a more "forgiving" iron then previous irons i used

one shot my 8i was 160, then it was 170...when normally this is a 165 club for me (in perfect conditions)

maybe it was the KBS shafts?? im not 100%...probably had something to do with it, but not eveything

but i did find they masked my poor shots and were harder to work

i would always over cook them, more than likely due to more offset and more forgiveness in the head

i would say once you get to a skill level that you need to start feeling more shots and working the ball, then make a switch

until then, have fun and score well with what YOU want in the bag

[tws1098]

Thanks for the opinions guys, I'll have to remember the thread after I go out a play a couple rounds.  Could be a while though...I dont get out too often as it is and it is snowing right now

[Mac62]

Make no mistake - no matter how "forgiving" GI clubs are, you can still hit bad shots with them if you're not hitting the ball correctly.  The K15 driver is touted as one of the straightest, most forgiving drivers ever made, and I can still slice it just as bad as any other driver I've ever hit, going clear back to the persimmon driver in the first set I ever owned.  If what you're looking for is a straight ball, and you hit a straight ball with what you have now, IMO they're not going to make you score any better or worse.  As max power said above, the sweet spot is still the sweet spot and mishits are still noticeable.  It's not like you can just hack at the ball with the worst possible swing and expect them to magically "fix" it for you.

[tws1098]

  Mac62 said:

Originally Posted by Mac62

Make no mistake - no matter how "forgiving" GI clubs are, you can still hit bad shots with them if you're not hitting the ball correctly.  The K15 driver is touted as one of the straightest, most forgiving drivers ever made, and I can still slice it just as bad as any other driver I've ever hit, going clear back to the persimmon driver in the first set I ever owned.  If what you're looking for is a straight ball, and you hit a straight ball with what you have now, IMO they're not going to make you score any better or worse.  As max power said above, the sweet spot is still the sweet spot and mishits are still noticeable.  It's not like you can just hack at the ball with the worst possible swing and expect them to magically "fix" it for you.

The Wilsons were not very straight for me, some yes/some no...thus 4 GIR. But they are very small cavity backs that are 20+ years old.

I certaintly don't expect to be able to hack at the ball with the sumos, I guess my question is more geared toward to what extent will the size of the clubs/way they are weighted affect shots I have from different lies (rough, sand, uphill/down/side)?

[Leftygolfer]

I'd say no.  I bought some MP60s a couple of years ago thinking it would make me get better.  The only thing that happened was my scores got worse.  I get away with more with my current irons, hit more greens, hit it higher, all the good stuff.  I consider them pretty darn forgiving and until you are at the level of hitting the center of the club 9 out of 10 swings a little forgiveness will help the scores.

[WUTiger]

It all comes down to tradeoffs.

The SGI clubheads often come with very low Vertical Center of Gravity, and shafts with a low kickpoint. Both of these factors combine to get the ball up higher for persons with lower swingspeed. Also, SGI clubheads tend to have wider faces and larger sweetspots: more surface to hit, but klunkier in the rough.

But, SGI features can be too much of a good thing. I had tried the Big Berthas, and Ping G10s, but with the low-kick shafts they popped the ball up too high on shorter irons.  So ended up with X20s, an SGI club (UGI if you use the Maltby six-class system) with Uniflex, midkick shafts. Good foregiveness without the ball ballooning.

The GIi/Player's clubs tend to have a higher Vertical Center of Gravity, and shafts with mid- to high kickpoints. Both of these keep the ball down, often spoken of in ads as "boring flight" (cut under the wind) flight. Also, the smaller heads tend to move through the rough better.

Recent flighted shafts tend to correct for the high-low extremes: In flighted shafts, longer irons have lower kickpoints to get the ball up a little quicker, and shorter irons have higher kickpoints so the ball doesn't balloon.

If you understand the basics of a golf swing, you can work the ball with any kind of club. With the GI/Player's irons, you can work it more severely, and can probably keep the ball lower when you want to. But, doing magic tricks with ball trajectory assumes you have enough time to work on your game regularly.

If not, you would probably be better for the more forgiving clubs. On various other threads, lower HDCP posters have said they went to GI clubs because of limited practice time.

[Gordon McTavish]

K.J. Choi doesn't seem to have been harmed by playing Ping G15 ions...

[Mr. Desmond]

Don't think GI Irons will hurt your game. They in all likelihood will make the game easier in some ways - misses may not seem or be as bad. They may not ultimately offer the feedback you want -- they may be a little numb. You may not like them around the green due to the huge width of the soles -- so if you like to use an 8i with which to chip, it may seem bulky and have too much effective bounce. (stay on your front foot during the shot)  And like I stated, it may seem numb, and too hot -- lack sensitivity, which bothers a lot of players. You might bring up the heel off the ground to deaden chips a tad so they don't run out. Try it if you normally use a GI Iron around the green, and try a normal 52-60 wedge -- compare. Good luck.

[andef]

I don't think it'll hurt your game either. But enis is right. When you get to a certain level, distance control because much more important.

GI clubs don't give you the same distance control of blades or player's irons, and that's why some players prefer these clubs.

I haven't yet gotten to the point where I'm at the highest level and that's why I play a forgiving player's iron.

[Nevada Hacker]

I have a set of Sumo irons and enjoy playing with them. They are very forgiving and while they don't feel as nice when hit in the sweet spot, they don't feel as bad when hit off center. I agree about the wedges. I use Nike Victory Red Forged wedges because I found that the bounce of the Sumo wedges were too wide for me. I replaced the 50* A wedge with a 52* and added a 56* and 60*. I still use the pitching wedge up to 4 iron from the Sumo set. It all works for me. My game isn't hurt by having SGI clubs, my game is hurt by my inconsistent swing...but I'm working on it!

Have fun with your Sumo's!

[delav]

  enis750 said:

Originally Posted by enis750

at a 14 index, its not going to "hurt" you

for me....yes....why???

even when i played my TM R9 TP's last year, i found they were inconsistent w yardages being a more "forgiving" iron then previous irons i used

one shot my 8i was 160, then it was 170...when normally this is a 165 club for me (in perfect conditions)

maybe it was the KBS shafts?? im not 100%...probably had something to do with it, but not eveything

but i did find they masked my poor shots and were harder to work

i would always over cook them, more than likely due to more offset and more forgiveness in the head

i would say once you get to a skill level that you need to start feeling more shots and working the ball, then make a switch

until then, have fun and score well with what YOU want in the bag

I'd bet this distance control issue may be a factor of shaft, or even more likely impact position (prior to swing changes, right?).  If tour pros can rely on the R9 TPs, I'd be willing to be I could too.

Look/feel/offset, I hear you there.  They're a nice set, but perform differently than more traditional players clubs.

[WUTiger]

Quote:

  Mr. Desmond said:

Don't think GI Irons will hurt your game....

Try it if you normally use a GI Iron around the green, and try a normal 52-60 wedge -- compare. Good luck.

A pro  I work with said a mid-HDCP who uses SGI irons can use speciality wedges ... Vokey, CG14, Callaway X-Forged... as long as you're willing to practice a litle extra with the wedges. I have done fine with CG14 and X-Forged, smaller heads come out of rough nicely, and are worth the effort as long as I can practice on occasion.

But, some people do quite well with the stock wedges which match their iron sets. Just depends on what you're trying to do, what works for you.