Stock shafts vs. After-market shafts

[moparman426]

Originally Posted by spearq8

I will tell you my experience which was very eye opening.  I bought a brand new Ping G20 with the stock shaft Stiff and 9.5 degree loft from Edwin Watts, the club arrived and I noticed a small hairline crack near the hosel.  After closer inspection it turns out that this was just  a small crack that was on the epoxy and not the club itself.

Are you saying that you could see epoxy on the outside of the club?  There shouldn't be any epoxy on the outside of the hosel unless the person that put it together was very sloppy.

[spearq8]

Maybe epoxy is not the correct word but rather it might be a laquer or some polyurethane finish, of course it could be epoxy finish.  When I bought the club there was no TP version so I just got the stock shaft in 9.5 degree and stiff.  I am now looking at getting custom fit with a Damiana white 73 gr for the driver, and am thinking of getting fitted for my 3 wood as well but not sure if I should get the 73gr or 83 gr.  Do you have any idea what the weights for the 3 wood and driver are?  I would like to get the same weights as I like the weights.  I do have a Damiana blue 73 gr shaft in X stiff, but that might a little too stiff so not sure if I want to use that.

[moparman426]

I personally do not have any experience with Diamana shafts.  Historically, the fairway clubs have a heavier shaft than the driver.  I prefer to use what feels better to me, yes subjective, I know, lol.  My driver is 75g and I like the Rombax because it responds well to my quick transition.  I had a 68g in my 5 wood (no 3 wood at the moment) and went to a heavy 86g shaft in it for last season.  I already have the 68g swapped back in for this year.  You don't have to follow the norm I guess, just go with whatever feels best for you and what suits your swing.

Just don't get caught up in this "All stock shafts are crap" manure that people seem to get into, because they aren't all crap.  Sure, maybe the quality control might be a little more slack with mass production, but that doesn't mean there aren't some nice shafts out there that don't cost an arm and a leg.  Most of which probably came in someone's off the rack golf club.  Like was stated earlier, why would a company lend their name to a shoddy product, when their main income relies on those products?  Club manufacturers and players are both caught up in getting more distance, and that's being answered with lighter and lighter products.  Keep making things lighter with the same old technology, and guess what?  Something is going to eventually break.

Then again, maybe I am just talking out of my a..

[silverjs11]

i recently got the JAVLN FX S shaft in my callaway FT iZ and i love it. I see about a 10-15 yard increase compared to the stock aldilla that came in it. also the red shaft with my white grips look sweet so thats always a plus.

[dbwood]

It might not be the shaft.  Have you had the lofts checked on the heads?  Driver heads are rarely exactly at their stated loft and being off by 1-2 degrees isn't uncommon.  One of your 9.5s could easily be 9 and the other 11.

Originally Posted by spearq8

I will tell you my experience which was very eye opening.  I bought a brand new Ping G20 with the stock shaft Stiff and 9.5 degree loft from Edwin Watts, the club arrived and I noticed a small hairline crack near the hosel.  After closer inspection it turns out that this was just  a small crack that was on the epoxy and not the club itself.  Anyway I decided to buy another identical one since I was thinking of sending the first one back.  Since the first one was playing well, I decided to keep it and use the second driver as a spare.  Last week was an important club tournament, and I decided that instead of putting new fresh grips on my first G20, I would just bring the brand new one.  I cannot tell you how shocked at how differently this "identical" club was performing.  My brand new 9.5 degree was going high like a 13 degree and ballooning up.  The kickpoint was so dramatically different that it was ridiculous.  I let our local pro try them both and he was just shaking his head and said that is why you should always get fitted with an after market shaft for your driver.  The first club had a lower and boring trajectory, but the new one was shooting super high.  I am definitely planning to re-shaft my driver and have it pured.  I never thought there is such a huge difference between identical clubs, but the quality control on the shafts is poor.  It must be all the pressure to sell the drivers cheap that manufacturers are cutting corners on stock shafts..

[LBlack14]

The club manufacturers don't make the shafts.  The shaft manufacturers do.  The difference between your two clubs may possibly be attributed to the orientation of the shaft in the club.  Are the labels both face up?  If they are, they are probably just put in with no thought to orientation at all, but are installed for visual appeal.  The Rombax in my TM driver was installed correctly.  I can "twang" the shaft in any direction, and it returns back to a nice flat horizontal pattern.  The result of this places the label where it can't be seen in this case, almost under the shaft.  I bet your two won't, or at least one of them won't level out all too well.  Mine is a TP version though, so it has an upgraded shaft, but still not a full blown after market version.  Heads lofts aren't exact all the time either.

It could also be because just because a club states 9.5* of loft doesn't mean it's not 11.5* or 7.5* actual. It could also be because of an inconsistant swing and other factors. I hate used car salesmen btw....most of 'em anyway.

[LBlack14]

It might not be the shaft.  Have you had the lofts checked on the heads?  Driver heads are rarely exactly at their stated loft and being off by 1-2 degrees isn't uncommon.  One of your 9.5s could easily be 9 and the other 11.

Oops...I guess I should read ALL the posts before posting.:8)

[moparman426]

Originally Posted by moparman426

lofts aren't exact all the time either.

Echo , echo , echo , echo .......

[mymizunosrock]

Originally Posted by LBlack14

It could also be because just because a club states 9.5* of loft doesn't mean it's not 11.5* or 7.5* actual. It could also be because of an inconsistant swing and other factors.

I hate used car salesmen btw....most of 'em anyway.

What?? 2 degrees?? Look, I agree that the lofts might not be identical, but I cant see them being give or take 2 degrees. Inconsistent factors?? What, the shaft might not be part of that inconsistency?? Its likely to be most of it. If the spin rates were very different, its likely that the shaft is causing this, not a minor change in loft. I had a mate have his driver replaced by Callaway after it cracked. Same head, same shaft, 2 totally different clubs. Stock shafts are very sensitive when it comes to the positioning of the spine. I have seen so many people buy the latest drivers only to return them because they just cant hit them straight. Every now and then, you get lucky.

Disregard the stock versus after market debate at your own peril, but dont do it and trash the comments of professional club makers. They are offering advice, not trying to sell you a lemon.

[k-troop]

Man, I must be a crap golfer with my crap made for Ahina shafts in my crap driver and 3 wood.  But I hit fairways, and I get to roll eagle putts pretty much every week, so I'll just take my crap game and enjoy it just fine.

I'm going to start another thread that says anyone who replaces the shaft in their $400 driver with a $300 aftermarket shaft is a total sucker, and invite everyone to laugh at him.

[spearq8]

Originally Posted by LBlack14

It could also be because just because a club states 9.5* of loft doesn't mean it's not 11.5* or 7.5* actual. It could also be because of an inconsistant swing and other factors.

I hate used car salesmen btw....most of 'em anyway.

Hmmm that is something I didn't think was possible.  Why would there be such a huge difference in lofts on identical clubs from the same manufacturer in drivers?  Seems like a simple quality control issue.  Now I guess I understand why Golfsmith have "digital loft lie" option on their custom fitting.  I will have to check it out on my Loft Lie machine, but have to change out the backplate for woods.  I always check the loft lie on my irons and that is absolutely a must if you use forged irons (especially blades) on hard matts or hard surface.  It is probably the best investment that I have ever done for my golf.  In six months a forged iron can go off by more than 3 or 4 degrees, and can really screw up your game and confidence as your shot dispersion starts going crazy.  I check my loft lie on all my new irons (all Mizunos) and they are all perfect.  I do check other peoples loft and lie and discovered why TM burner irons go so far ... the 5 iron is about 4 degrees strong.  But what I have to admit is that the loft and lie is pretty much tack on with brand new irons (at least the ones I checked) ... so why would driver lofts be off so much?  Anyway definitely something I will check into.

[LBlack14]

I have seen them measured at more than a 2* difference from stated loft. I have a friend who is a professional club maker/fitter and not a Big Box, but a real PRO who has a Hibore XL 10,5* stated that measures 16*. They do slip through the cracks. That is an extreme case, but 2* is not as far fetched as you may think and is highly likely.

[LBlack14]

Man, I must be a crap golfer with my crap made for Ahina shafts in my crap driver and 3 wood.  But I hit fairways, and I get to roll eagle putts pretty much every week, so I'll just take my crap game and enjoy it just fine.

I'm going to start another thread that says anyone who replaces the shaft in their $400 driver with a $300 aftermarket shaft is a total sucker, and invite everyone to laugh at him.

I will laugh right along with you.:-D

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by spearq8

Quote:

Originally Posted by LBlack14

It could also be because just because a club states 9.5* of loft doesn't mean it's not 11.5* or 7.5* actual. It could also be because of an inconsistant swing and other factors.

I hate used car salesmen btw....most of 'em anyway.

Hmmm that is something I didn't think was possible.  Why would there be such a huge difference in lofts on identical clubs from the same manufacturer in drivers?  Seems like a simple quality control issue.  Now I guess I understand why Golfsmith have "digital loft lie" option on their custom fitting.  I will have to check it out on my Loft Lie machine, but have to change out the backplate for woods.  I always check the loft lie on my irons and that is absolutely a must if you use forged irons (especially blades) on hard matts or hard surface.  It is probably the best investment that I have ever done for my golf.  In six months a forged iron can go off by more than 3 or 4 degrees, and can really screw up your game and confidence as your shot dispersion starts going crazy.  I check my loft lie on all my new irons (all Mizunos) and they are all perfect.  I do check other peoples loft and lie and discovered why TM burner irons go so far ... the 5 iron is about 4 degrees strong.  But what I have to admit is that the loft and lie is pretty much tack on with brand new irons (at least the ones I checked) ... so why would driver lofts be off so much?  Anyway definitely something I will check into.

Do you mean a forged iron that was bent 3 or 4 degrees from its manufactured loft? I've been playing forged irons for 25 years and I've never experienced this phenomenon.

[LBlack14]

What?? 2 degrees?? Look, I agree that the lofts might not be identical, but I cant see them being give or take 2 degrees. Inconsistent factors?? What, the shaft might not be part of that inconsistency?? Its likely to be most of it. If the spin rates were very different, its likely that the shaft is causing this, not a minor change in loft. I had a mate have his driver replaced by Callaway after it cracked. Same head, same shaft, 2 totally different clubs. Stock shafts are very sensitive when it comes to the positioning of the spine. I have seen so many people buy the latest drivers only to return them because they just cant hit them straight. Every now and then, you get lucky.

Disregard the stock versus after market debate at your own peril, but dont do it and trash the comments of professional club makers. They are offering advice, not trying to sell you a lemon.

They are wrong and what they're doing is called blowing smoke up your ass. That "$300 shaft" you're getting doesn't cost anywhere near that to make. That's why it can be offered at little or no upgrade cost. The one guy totally contradicted himself when he stated something to the affect that "shafts painted in manufacturer's graphics are garbage". Every PGA Tour player that has a sponsorship to play Taulormade woods has a shaft painted in Taylormade's graphics. Please, I'm not saying ALL are the same as aftermarket as I've already stated. Some differ in small variances in different specs, but are built with the same manufacturing process as the after market.

[glock35ipsc]

Advertised manufacturing tolerances on club heads are usually +/- 1°, and it's not a stretch AT ALL for a head to be up to 2-3° or more off from what is stamped on the head.

And for grins, if anyone is familiar with Grafalloy, you know Robin Arthur is THE MAN that put the modern lightweight graphite shaft on the map.  He has since left Graffaloy and has his own line out, Arthur Xtreme XCaliber shafts, all priced between $20-something and $50-something.

In his words.....

[Harmonious]

Originally Posted by glock35ipsc

And for grins, if anyone is familiar with Grafalloy, you know Robin Arthur is THE MAN that put the modern lightweight graphite shaft on the map.  He has since left Graffaloy and has his own line out, Arthur Xtreme XCaliber shafts, all priced between $20-something and $50-something.

Thanks for posting this video.  Pretty enlightening stuff from a guy who knows a little bit about shafts.

[marcv68]

Just my .02 I am a every day schlep to work kinda guy.I have a 10 yr.old and an 8 yr.old in Catholic elementary school and a wife who teaches there.We live pretty modestly and my wife gets paid pennies not like public school teachers.That bein said I just got all new clubs this year.I honestly spent any where from 1,000 to 1,500 for my new bag.I cannot afford the 300 to 400 dollar shafts some of u ho,s have.Thats why I grabbed an R11 to b able to adjust and maximize to get the most out of the shaft I could.My numbers were pretty good on the trackman so I bought it.I,m quite happy with it.Now the 3-wood,which is an RBZ,has a garbage shaft.I did get a nice buy from the bay on an Aldila RIP so I pulled the trigger.I got it for 50 bucks.Thats how I usually fund a new shafgt purchase.