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mm6840

Martin Ayers

44 posts in this topic

Hi,
For those who searching for more swing knowledge/expirience here is new approach based on very old school (Abe Mitchel, Hogan, Snead, ...)
http://www.mostpowerfulmoveingolf.com/
http://www.facebook.com/secretinthedirt
Disclaimer : This swing is so ass backwards from everything everyone else has taught, give it time, practice often and results will come
Cheers,
M
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Interesting guy and I like what he's done with Elk.

The right arm "winding" key is hard to get your head around though, or at least was hard for me to get my head around, because it's such an abstract thing. You can't even really see it in Martin or Steve's swings, although they both talk about how clearly you can feel the effect once you have the right "intent".

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Originally Posted by Stretch

The right arm "winding" key is hard to get your head around though, or at least was hard for me to get my head around, because it's such an abstract thing. You can't even really see it in Martin or Steve's swings, although they both talk about how clearly you can feel the effect once you have the right "intent".


I've heard from other people that it's very much a "feeling" and in general I'm not a big fan of "here's a general feeling for everyone, now go practice." I think feelings are unique and some people feel things differently than others.

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Originally Posted by mm6840

. . . give it time, practice often and results will come



That last bit is important. Get any old golf book from the library. Give the drills and tips an honest try with plenty of patience and practice and the results will come. Will they be the best results you could possibly achieved with the same amount of patience an practice? Who knows?

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I agree that feel is something different for everyone ... but in that context we're talking about apllying physical movement with desciption of the feel&intent.;
I guess this picture represent 3 different positions with somehowe SAME feel/intent :-) So yes for everyone is different :-)
and in that case feel is more or less something like this :
Cheers,
M
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Haha. Yeah, that's the "circle going in just one direction" right there.

Must admit, I checked out the video mainly because I enjoy Elk's wandering approach to the mysteries of the golf swing. Figure any guy who has worked seriously with Ben Doyle, Mac O'Grady and Mike Bennett and Andy Plummer is at least worth hearing out when he says he's found something that has him hitting the ball better than ever before.

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OK, this is a strange one, but my conclusion from trying this out for a few days is it's a feel that both is and isn't real.

Real: I can undeniably hit the ball further when I consciously put the wind into the right arm. There's a target green at my club's range that I must have hit thousands of balls to and have never ever previously carried with anything short of a seven iron. Yesterday I was flying eights right over the pin on that green despite a slight breeze in the face. Can't really argue with that.

Unreal: Got the camera out and my swing still looked exactly the same . I absolutely expected to see something concrete to account for the extra zip -- bending the right arm more, hinging the wrists more, hands higher at the top, whatever -- but my move was 100% as short, under plane, laid off and power leaky as ever. So it's no magic technique bullet for me.

Long story short: More smash as advertised, no idea how or why.

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Originally Posted by iacas

I've heard from other people that it's very much a "feeling" and in general I'm not a big fan of "here's a general feeling for everyone, now go practice." I think feelings are unique and some people feel things differently than others.


There's a reasoning behind it, it isn't 'just' a feeling. In general I like to seek info from the source on all things Golf, rather than rely on other people's interpretations. If you would like to know more about it. I would be happy to answer any questions you might have.



Originally Posted by Stretch

OK, this is a strange one, but my conclusion from trying this out for a few days is it's a feel that both is and isn't real.

Real: I can undeniably hit the ball further when I consciously put the wind into the right arm. There's a target green at my club's range that I must have hit thousands of balls to and have never ever previously carried with anything short of a seven iron. Yesterday I was flying eights right over the pin on that green despite a slight breeze in the face. Can't really argue with that.

Unreal: Got the camera out and my swing still looked exactly the same. I absolutely expected to see something concrete to account for the extra zip -- bending the right arm more, hinging the wrists more, hands higher at the top, whatever -- but my move was 100% as short, under plane, laid off and power leaky as ever. So it's no magic technique bullet for me.

Long story short: More smash as advertised, no idea how or why.


Would love to see the swing with you implementing the ideas.

Cheers

Martin

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Hello everybody!  I just found this thread when doing a Google search, and I wanted to just add my "2 cents".  I have watched the video and the bonus footage, and I have to say that what Mr. Ayers is saying does work...at least for me.   The essential thing for me is to get the intent right, then make sure you do the winding in correctly.  After that you just lift, or flip, the club to your personal hand position and then pivot toward the target (no hip sliding, or back flexion).  If you have done these things, the club really does release sort of on its own.

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I've not managed to get my head around this so far. Will work on it during my next range session which will hopefully be tomorrow. :(

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My concern was that when I tired to wind up my arm, I actually did.

First shot I hit the back of the hosel and sent the ball forward.

I've never swung a club so open in my life.

Clearly, I may have misinterpreted the action but it's one of the dangers of swinging a feels like.

When I wound up my arm as prescribed, I actually did it.

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@Island Guru

The words lift or flip can mean many things to you that may work...I prefer to just let the club SWING into transition. Thanks for buying the tape :)

@MiniBlueDragon

I'll be checking back here if you have any questions..hope you get out to that range soon. :)

Originally Posted by John Graham

My concern was that when I tired to wind up my arm, I actually did.

First shot I hit the back of the hosel and sent the ball forward.

I've never swung a club so open in my life.

Clearly, I may have misinterpreted the action but it's one of the dangers of swinging a feels like.

When I wound up my arm as prescribed, I actually did it.


John, as a fellow professional I have a lot of respect for what you do.....

If you can wind it up so much that you hit the ball with the back of the hosel then you have it in there great. All you have to do from there is let the club swing freely in both directions and it will blend in with the opposition you have created by winding away from the arc of the swing that we all know must be present. This might seem like just a feel to you, but the method to the madness is that you are not causing anything to happen in the swing that MUST happen. You can't overdo the winding feel....but you can lack sufficient flow and momentum of the club to take advantage of the winding in opposition.

Cheers

Martin

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That's what i will work on.

The downswing I couldn't get to unwind.

I'll keep working at it.


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Martin, do you like the shoulders level at address with weight on left side like S&T; or the reverse k set-up?

Elk looks like he has reverse k but you look more level.

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Originally Posted by Duhwinner

Martin, do you like the shoulders level at address with weight on left side like S&T; or the reverse k set-up?

Elk looks like he has reverse k but you look more level.


Duhwinner

Weight distribution depends on the shot at hand and the club. As a base model I would say more like 50/50 with the irons, but wound forward, and 60R/40L with the Driver wound forward.

The idea is to have more of a K address from the ribcage down as opposed to a reverse K. Elk has more shoulder tilt at address with this K address than I do. The main reason for that is that he sets up at separation hands, I am more back at address/mid body hands. Elk can't really start where I do and play effectively because the shaft looks to be leaning back like crazy to him at that position due to his left eye dominance. Whereas for me, right eye dominant, it looks straight up and down so I prefer to aim it that way.

The goal for myself and anyone I work with is to have more weight behind the ball but wound in front of it. I don't like setting up on the left side square so that my body is turned away from the target.

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I *think* the movement has just twigged for me. I had such a hard time getting my swing to go back as normal and appying the "feeling" rto it rather than physically making the move (which sent my club head out straight behind the ball rather than back around).

I'm going to give this a few more sessions at the range and see if I can get the two combined. I really hope I can or it's back to the normal swing for me. :(

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Martin, I bought your video and its very good but Im still alittle confused on how you align your body and club. Do you line your  lower body straight at the flag then turn your shoulders back to the right along with the club face so that they are aiming to the right of the target? Or am I way of base.

Thanks

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Does this move get your arms in front of your body more or the downswing?  Specifically, does it get the right elbow in front of the hip better?

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