Ruling: Golf Balls lies on tree mulch & sidewalk

[thomaskevan]

Ruling:  Golf Balls lies on tree mulch & sidewalk

My golf ball lies on tree mulch & sidewalk.  More golf ball on the mulch & the edge of the ball on sidewalk.

I know that you can get a free drop if your stance is on the sidewalk.

Can I get a ruling on if your golf balls in in the mulch & the edge of the ball on the sidewalk?

I am a right hander & in the situation stated above, my stance is NOT on the sidewalk.

At that time, my friend & I was debating on how it should be played.  My friend states that since any part of the golf ball is on the sidewalk, you get free relief.  Now, what we don't agree on is where to drop the ball.

He states that i need to drop the ball on the mulch but no closer to the holes so the ball is not on the sidewalk or against it.  I suggested that i drop the ball on the other side of the sidewalk but the other side is not a mulch lie but one of those dirt & some grass lie.  He states that though what i suggested is correct but i improve my lie by moving my ball out of the mulch & onto ground.

Mulch - shredded wood that are place around the bottom of the tree.  you may see them in red, black, brown, etc. color

Thanks in advance for your input

[pound puppy]

I don't have time to look it up, but my guess is that where you drop your ball will be more dependent on "nearest point of relief, no closer to the hole" than it will on whether theh drop happens to improve your lie.

[iacas]

Nearest point of relief. Period.

Sounds like that's on the side with the mulch. Whether your lie is improved or not is irrelevant (a non-factor).

[thomaskevan]

Originally Posted by iacas

Nearest point of relief. Period.

Sounds like that's on the side with the mulch. Whether your lie is improved or not is irrelevant (a non-factor).

lets say you r a right hander.  there is a sidewalk.  the ball is on the left side of the sidewalk.  the tree mulch is right against the left side of the sidewalk & the ball is right on the mulch & touching the edge of the left side of sidewalk.  the flag is on the left side of the sidewalk.

so what you are saying is i should drop on the right side of the sidewalk out of the mulch lie & onto the ground which is away from the hole/flag?

[thomaskevan]

Originally Posted by pound puppy

I don't have time to look it up, but my guess is that where you drop your ball will be more dependent on "nearest point of relief, no closer to the hole" than it will on whether theh drop happens to improve your lie.

Diagram:

flag/hole

mulch  -  ball lies against sidewalk on mulch

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

sidewalk                          sidewalk                       sidewalk

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

no mulch but dirt & some grass, like backyard kind of grass

I'm a right hander so the stance doesn't put me on sidewalk but my ball is partially on sidewalk which give me free relief.  so u suggesting i drop the ball on the right side of the sidewalk out of the mulch lie?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by thomaskevan

so what you are saying is i should drop on the right side of the sidewalk out of the mulch lie & onto the ground which is away from the hole/flag?

I believe I said the opposite. You drop in the mulch because your "nearest point of relief" is about two inches to the left of where the ball sits. Far enough that your stance and the area of your swing is not affected by the sidewalk.

You don't go all the way across the sidewalk.

Nearest point of relief. If that's two inches away from where your ball is, that's where it is.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by thomaskevan

Ruling:  Golf Balls lies on tree mulch & sidewalk

My golf ball lies on tree mulch & sidewalk.  More golf ball on the mulch & the edge of the ball on sidewalk.

I know that you can get a free drop if your stance is on the sidewalk.

Can I get a ruling on if your golf balls in in the mulch & the edge of the ball on the sidewalk?

I am a right hander & in the situation stated above, my stance is NOT on the sidewalk.

At that time, my friend & I was debating on how it should be played.  My friend states that since any part of the golf ball is on the sidewalk, you get free relief.  Now, what we don't agree on is where to drop the ball.

He states that i need to drop the ball on the mulch but no closer to the holes so the ball is not on the sidewalk or against it.  I suggested that i drop the ball on the other side of the sidewalk but the other side is not a mulch lie but one of those dirt & some grass lie.  He states that though what i suggested is correct but i improve my lie by moving my ball out of the mulch & onto ground.

Mulch - shredded wood that are place around the bottom of the tree.  you may see them in red, black, brown, etc. color

Thanks in advance for your input

You don't get relief from the mulch, only from the sidewalk (obstruction - Rule 24).  You determine the nearest point of relief where there is no longer interference by the obstruction for your lie, stance, or the area of your intended swing , then you measure one clublength from that spot - not nearer to the hole than the NPR and not back into interference with the obstruction.  Your ball when dropped, must first hit the course in that area.    It must come to rest not closer to the hole than the NPR, not back into an interference condition, and must not roll more than 2 clublengths from where it first hits the ground.  If that leaves you in the mulch, or behind a tree, or in a bush, then that's where it leaves you.

You are not guaranteed a good lie or a good line of play under this rule, you are only guaranteed relief from the obstruction.

[TourSpoon]

This happened to me yesterday.  My ball was in the middle of the sidewalk that was on the right side of the hole.  My nearest point of relief was moving the ball 2 feet left, no closer to the hole, and to proceed with the one club length and take my drop.  Going to the right side of the walk would have moved my ball at least 4 feet because I would need relief for the ball and my stance.  I took my drop and ended up with a good lie.

The other option is no relief, which I have done as well.  If playing from the path is better than the area that you are dropping in then play it.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by TourSpoon

This happened to me yesterday.  My ball was in the middle of the sidewalk that was on the right side of the hole.  My nearest point of relief was moving the ball 2 feet left, no closer to the hole, and to proceed with the one club length and take my drop.  Going to the right side of the walk would have moved my ball at least 4 feet because I would need relief for the ball and my stance.  I took my drop and ended up with a good lie.

The other option is no relief, which I have done as well.  If playing from the path is better than the area that you are dropping in then play it.

I've done that many times.  It's an option that many never even consider.  When the relief only gets you into a worse problem, then you just play it as it lies.  I've played from gravel, asphalt, and concrete cart paths when the relief option wasn't really an option.

[thomaskevan]

Thanks everyone for their input... so what's the final verdict??

drop on left side of sidewalk in the mulch that is closer to the hole or drop on the right side of the sidewalk not in the mulch away from the hole??

Diagram:

flag/hole

Left Side                            mulch  -  ball lies against sidewalk on mulch

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

sidewalk                          sidewalk                       sidewalk

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Right Side                             no mulch but dirt & some grass, like backyard kind of grass

[TourSpoon]

The verdict is the left side.  It is where the nearest point of relief is, because the ball needs to be moved 3-6 inches to provide it and then take your drop using the one club length.  The right side is not an option because you have to move the ball across the path and then you will need relief for your stance which could be about 5-6 feet. It's Nearest Point of Relief.

[thomaskevan]

Thanks again for all input...

Diagram:

flag/hole

Left Side                   sand trap         sand trap   sand trap

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(ball)

sidewalk                          sidewalk                       sidewalk

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Right Side                             no mulch but dirt & some grass, like backyard kind of grass

Nearest Point of Relief...??? so in this example, you will be dropping the ball in the sand trap?  The balls lie on the sidewalk but is closer to the left side of the sidewalk.  The fairway sand trap is a big one, lets say.  so nearest point of relief is the sand trap to where you can drop the ball?

also, what if the ball lies on the sidewalk nearer to the right side?  in this case, you drop on the right side of sidewalk?

thanks again.

[anotherday]

What is a cart path doing so close to a sand trap? And how many different variations of this instance have you actually run into?

Just remember: nearest point of relief and you should be fine. As a 36 handicap.. I think there are more places to save strokes than the half mulch/half sidewalk lie.

[thomaskevan]

Originally Posted by anotherday

What is a cart path doing so close to a sand trap? And how many different variations of this instance have you actually run into?

Just remember: nearest point of relief and you should be fine. As a 36 handicap.. I think there are more places to save strokes than the half mulch/half sidewalk lie.

What is a cart path doing so close to a sand trap? And how many different variations of this instance have you actually run into?

this didn't happen, just an example so i can understand better

i am just trying to understand "nearest point of relief".  some understand through words & some understand thru pictures & what not.  sorry, i am not fast like you.

thank you.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by thomaskevan

i am just trying to understand "nearest point of relief".  some understand through words & some understand thru pictures & what not.  sorry, i am not fast like you.

The problem with that excuse is that you can come up with a thousand different "pictures" but "nearest point of relief" covers them all.

1. You must take complete relief.

2. You must drop within a clublength of the nearest point at which you get that complete relief "through the green".

3. There's no number three.

The ball on the right half of the cart path could still result in relief being taken to the left because, taken to the right, the nearest point requires you to not only move the ball off the cart path but your feet (your stance) as well.

[zeg]

Originally Posted by thomaskevan

Nearest Point of Relief...???  so in this example, you will be dropping the ball in the sand trap?  The balls lie on the sidewalk but is closer to the left side of the sidewalk.  The fairway sand trap is a big one, lets say.  so nearest point of relief is the sand trap to where you can drop the ball?

also, what if the ball lies on the sidewalk nearer to the right side?  in this case, you drop on the right side of sidewalk?

You would not drop in the bunker.

Through the green (i.e., not in a bunker or water/lateral water hazard, and not on the putting green), your nearest point of relief from the obstruction must not be in a hazard---that is, you are neither required nor allowed to drop in a bunker or water/lateral water hazard in this case.  So you find the nearest point of relief excluding those areas.  Note that there is no limit to how far away that nearest point of relief may be.

If the picture is as you've drawn it, in most cases you'd probably be in the mulchy stuff, with your nearest point of relief being just enough to fit your stance between the ball and the cart path.

[thomaskevan]

thanks for the answer that help me on the 2nd ex.  "...nearest point of relief from the obstruction must not be in a hazard..."

thank you for your understanding in helping me to understand

[jaysquared]

What about if the sidewalk is not part of the golf course and is considered a public sidewalk? That has to be OB right???? My friend said that's a free relief and I said no.. Since the sidewalk is OB you play it how it lies just like if your ball is right by an OB fence.. Play it as it lies.. Was I correct??