How Fast to Get to Scratch from a 6.2?

[Gerald]

I don't consider myself a member of this group (yet) and I feel I might not even reach this level within a year orso, last year I restarted playing golf after an about 20 yrs layoff and went from no handicap to 5.8 within a few months ..... my goal is scratch or better for 2011 ...... so many of your thoughts are interesting for me, so I join this group, low profile, we'll see if you guys provide me much help getting me to scratch.... later this year .....

[iacas]

At 6.2 every facet of your game will need to improve. Do you have the time? Do you have an instructor you like and who has good information?

Is 6.2 to 0.x in one year a reasonable goal? I don't know, because I'm not you... but I wish you luck. You could start a thread here in this group that's largely a "journey" thread. Post about your practices, lessons, improvements, setbacks...

[Gerald]

Yep ....... I am actually in some sort of trouble now, I changed from a club with a moderately long course to a club with a really long course and as I am not a long hitter (not a short hitter either) I have to work hard to make pars at the longer par 4's.

Last year I did very well, and my target was a single figure handicap ....... no problem at all, I went from a club handicap 45 to an EGA handicap of 5.8 witin a few months, best round last year was a 2 over par 74 (including a few double bogeys), so I am aware of the fact that I can play below scratch.

My best 9 hole score was 2 under par.

At my new club, I am not longer in the top 10 players of the club, but more like in the top 25 and I am working hard to get my self into a top 10 position again, not that it bothers me much, but I like to play any course below 75 !

This winter we had a lot of snow (about 2 months the course and practice area was closed), and I kinda lost my game, but as I am quite new to the game of golf, who am I to tell I lost something.

Right now I can hit suberb shots dead straight to the pin from 200 yds in, but I can also spoil a few ...... making lot's of pars, but too less birdies and a bit too much bogeys, but I am not worried by the bogeys, it is the doubles.

What leads to the few doubles...... :

• Too less distance from the tee ....... I can nail some drives exactly where I want them, control the ball flight well, don't miss mainy fairways, but the average of around 250 yds is a bit too less for a low single digit ....... I would like to improve my average with about 10%. At the moment I hit a few 275-300 ish drives every round, but there are also some just not it pushes and hooks, I am not consistent enough and somehow most of the misses and up in terrible spots. Currently I am using a 909 D3 9.5* with DVS 60-S shaft, I like the shaft and the trajectory, but the head might be just a bit too difficult for me.
• My scrambling around the green is close to 50%, I work on that to become a little better at that to maybe 55-60% but where I loose some is from a little bit further off the green, let's say from 20-30 yds from the green I struggle to get up-down in two ...... so easy to make three shots from these distances, especially when it is under pressure to save a bogey........
• Putting ..... I just miss too many of those 5-6 footers, some are for birdie and some are to save par, if I just miss one for birdie and have a tap in par, no big deal, but if I miss a 6 footer for par ...... it is another par missed. Futher my lag putting isn't good enough to be sure I hit it close enough from let's say 30 ft. to be sure of a two putt ........ Still most rounds I play less than 30 putts, but that has more to do with great scrambling than with great putting.......
• Sand ...... I don't mind getting a ball in a bunker, I come out of the sandtraps 100%, but I have trouble getting it close to the hole ....... so sandsaves are too low, which is strange bc there is nothing so reliable as a bunker shot. I seem to hit most of them too far.

But to be honest I am mostly playing by feel, I feel the distance, I feel the grass, I feel my stance, I visualise the shot, but in putting (my weakest) the feel doesn't seem to be there.

So I have been reading the bla-bla-bla chapters of Utley's books "Putting" and "Scoring" on grips and I am learning now a totally new grip for my self, for the first time ever I am working on the feel thing, improving fundamentals, hoping to create a better feel for distance (lag putts) and I am practicing putting more now than I have done the whole last year ...... Hope (is not the right word) to improve my putting over the next few months.

Besides that I am working with S&T; to improve ball contact (ball first / ground second), improved distance from the irons (not really important for me), more control of distance is my main goal.

To be honest about my goals ....... last year I thought to be able to reach scratch in two years, but the lack of experience is maybe giving some problems, working on a better strategy aswell as on the whole game .......... if I would get my self to a 2 - 4 index this year ....... I am doing pretty well for a 52 yrs old recreational golfer.

But this season (with the course being qualifying just now) I added 0.4 to my hc. instead of getting it down......

[Harmonious]

As Erik said, EVERY part of your game needs to get better.  Down at the scratch level (I finally got there last Summer) a couple of bogeys can ruin your round if you don't make up for them with birdies.  And a double or two?  That's really tough. As you have already found out, playing a longer course puts a real emphasis on your approach shots and your short game.  You've got to get better with mid-irons and hybrids.  And those pesky 20-30 yard pitches.  They should become almost automatic up-and-downs.  Same with sand shots. And those 6 footers are a must to keep a good round going, and to take advantage of good approach shots.

Your driving distance is fine, IMO.  I am no longer than you, and play a course that measures 6950 from the blues, so I am faced with a lot of 4, 5 and 6 iron approaches. It's the improvement on those shots that have helped me make pars instead of bogeys on long par 4's.

The last part is mental, probably the most important.  No longer is chipping to within 6 feet good enough, it's got to be 3 feet. Missing a green with a 6 or 7 iron is not acceptable, EVER.  Three putting is a cardinal sin. Raise your standards.

Lots of work to do to drop those strokes, but it can be done. One year is very optimistic, but who knows? Good luck!

[Stretch]

There is some data available that can give you an idea of what you'd need to do to get near your goal. Lou Ricchio -- one of the pioneers of statistical analysis in golf -- did a study in 1990 of players of various abilities that I think is still pretty much the gold standard.

Looking at his numbers, let's say your current average score is 79 and you want to start averaging 71 instead. You would need to, on average:

-- Hit four more GIR (from 8 to 12).

-- Increase "iron accuracy" from 53% to 80% (I don't know how exactly he defined this, but it's probably fair enough to say your iron game needs to get about 30% better).

-- Shave pitch/chip/sand shots from 9.8 per round to 5.1 per round.

-- Increase birdies per round from 1.8 to 3.2.

-- Make three more pars per round (from 8.8 to 11.8).

The first and last factors are the two with the strongest correlation to score. Either can be used as a quite accurate predictor of performance, according to the formulas:

SCORE = 102.6 - 2.7*(#PARS)

SCORE = 95.1 - 2.0*(#GIR)

So, long story short, to go from a six or so to scratch you mostly need to hit more greens and make more pars. Easy, right?

PS: Just joined here to post that. Never expect to see scratch myself and don't think I'd actually want to. Far too little margin for error!

[Gerald]

Quote:

As Erik said, EVERY part of your game needs to get better.  Down at the scratch level (I finally got there last Summer) a couple of bogeys can ruin your round if you don't make up for them with birdies.  And a double or two?  That's really tough. As you have already found out, playing a longer course puts a real emphasis on your approach shots and your short game.  You've got to get better with mid-irons and hybrids.  And those pesky 20-30 yard pitches.  They should become almost automatic up-and-downs.  Same with sand shots. And those 6 footers are a must to keep a good round going, and to take advantage of good approach shots.

Your driving distance is fine, IMO.  I am no longer than you, and play a course that measures 6950 from the blues, so I am faced with a lot of 4, 5 and 6 iron approaches. It's the improvement on those shots that have helped me make pars instead of bogeys on long par 4's.

The last part is mental, probably the most important.  No longer is chipping to within 6 feet good enough, it's got to be 3 feet. Missing a green with a 6 or 7 iron is not acceptable, EVER.  Three putting is a cardinal sin. Raise your standards.

Lots of work to do to drop those strokes, but it can be done. One year is very optimistic, but who knows? Good luck!

Yep I know it is very optimistic, but it is good to have a goal !

Our course is 6715 (par 72 / cr 71.5) from the white tees and 7025 (par 72 / cr 73.2) from the blue tees and there are just too many 3i and 4i approach shots for me now, I have just added a WIlson Staff Fybrid 19.5 to fit somewhere within my 4W and the 3i, replacing the 2i that I still carried ........

I can hit the 2i only at those long Par 3's (we have one of 225 and one of 215 overhere ..... not really fun and need to go for par at least on these), but from the fairway it makes little sense, same with the 3i ....... if I really flush it the gain over a 4i is very little (about 10 yds) and I can be lethal with the 4i so maybe the hybrid is going to replace both the 2i and 3i (keeping the 3i for range practice, making the 4i easy.......)

You are right about getting the 20-30 yds shots closer, but as good as I am now on those kind of shots, there will be little to improve, same with the pro's they are not a lot better, but they are a hell of a lot better in putting, but of course I'll pratice huge on these shots ........ last 30 yds AND putting.

My driving is maybe not needing more distance, but more accuracy is vital !

I never miss a graan with a 6 or 7 iron, so no problem there, 5 iron yes I can miss, must improve in there and the 4 iron might be key at the moment for getting to scratch ..... if I can get those 160-200 yds close to the pin, I will have more birdie-chances and make more pars.......

Our Par 5's are not reachable in two, so I don't even try ...... well only if I have hit a super drive ...... so seldom.

Somehow you don't seem to me a guy changing equipment (I change too often I guess), what driver are you using, I feel my 909 D3 is bit unforgiving, looking for the same distance but a little less demanding ......

CU, Gerald.

[Gerald]

Quote:

So, long story short, to go from a six or so to scratch you mostly need to hit more greens and make more pars. Easy, right?

Yeppppp right !

GIR = PAR at least !

Everytime you need to work for a par, scrambling etc. there is a chance to miss a par.

[Harmonious]

Originally Posted by Gerald

Quote:

I can hit the 2i only at those long Par 3's (we have one of 225 and one of 215 overhere ..... not really fun and need to go for par at least on these), but from the fairway it makes little sense, same with the 3i ....... if I really flush it the gain over a 4i is very little (about 10 yds) and I can be lethal with the 4i so maybe the hybrid is going to replace both the 2i and 3i (keeping the 3i for range practice, making the 4i easy.......)

You are right about getting the 20-30 yds shots closer, but as good as I am now on those kind of shots, there will be little to improve, same with the pro's they are not a lot better, but they are a hell of a lot better in putting, but of course I'll pratice huge on these shots ........ last 30 yds AND putting.

My driving is maybe not needing more distance, but more accuracy is vital !

I never miss a graan with a 6 or 7 iron, so no problem there, 5 iron yes I can miss, must improve in there and the 4 iron might be key at the moment for getting to scratch ..... if I can get those 160-200 yds close to the pin, I will have more birdie-chances and make more pars.......

Our Par 5's are not reachable in two, so I don't even try ...... well only if I have hit a super drive ...... so seldom.

Somehow you don't seem to me a guy changing equipment (I change too often I guess), what driver are you using, I feel my 909 D3 is bit unforgiving, looking for the same distance but a little less demanding ......

CU, Gerald.

As it turns out, I actually play the Titleist 909 D3 9.5*, exactly the same as you.  I haven't found it to be unforgiving at all.  Maybe you just need to say sweet things to it before you tee off.  Either that, or make some threats that you are looking at another driver, so shape up!

As for birdies chances, you will probably find most of those on the par 5's.  Get your wedge game to where you have a reasonable shot at birdie every time you are inside 75 yards. Realistically, you won't get many birdies from outside 100 yards.

I added a 2 hybrid in the past six months because, like you, we have a couple of 210 yard par 3's that I couldn't reach with a 3 iron, so I was having to choke down on a 3 wood.  Very inconsistent, to say the least.  Now I know I have the right club for those two holes, and no longer have to overswing at an iron or finesse a wood.

[Gerald]

Originally Posted by Harmonious

As it turns out, I actually play the Titleist 909 D3 9.5*, exactly the same as you.  I haven't found it to be unforgiving at all.  Maybe you just need to say sweet things to it before you tee off.  Either that, or make some threats that you are looking at another driver, so shape up!

As for birdies chances, you will probably find most of those on the par 5's.  Get your wedge game to where you have a reasonable shot at birdie every time you are inside 75 yards. Realistically, you won't get many birdies from outside 100 yards.

I added a 2 hybrid in the past six months because, like you, we have a couple of 210 yard par 3's that I couldn't reach with a 3 iron, so I was having to choke down on a 3 wood.  Very inconsistent, to say the least.  Now I know I have the right club for those two holes, and no longer have to overswing at an iron or finesse a wood.

Unforgiving isn't maybe the right word, let's call it punishment from a swing that is slightly off ...... I had a 907 D2 last year, should have kept that ...... I could hit a fade or draw with it on command ...... Don't know with the 909 D3 ..... it should be more workable, but in my hands it is less, allthough average distance has improved over the 907 D2, maybe the face is a slightly more open, which makes it harder to square it ..... or something ........ I personally feel there is less room between a "cracker" and an only just average drive with the D3.

Maybe less workable is better for me, mostly I am better of with just nailing it down the fairway ........