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dsc123

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I'm also right handed, but don't know how to flip it  other than when i'm viewing it in V1.

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So here's a video from my GolfTech 30 min swing evaluation.  My biggest problems are: 1) slicing the ball;  and 2) consistency (good shot, slice, good shot, fat).

The GolfTec instructor picked out two flaws quickly: 1) rotating my hips too much on the backswing; and 2) swinging too hard. I think I need to slide my hips more too.  I'd buy a package of lessons there but it costs more than I'm willing to spend right now.

Any advice?

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I wouldn't worry about the hips. They're fine. Just make what feels like half a backswing. Experiment with the length that "feels" right, but strive to stop your backswing right about here:

Screen Shot 2011-09-06 at 9.41.15 pm.png

The only thing I'd change about that right there is to clean up the left knee work. Have it flex a little less towards the right knee and a little more out over your pinkie toe (turn your toes out too). That's it.

It may feel like "half a backswing" or that you stop when the club shaft gets vertical or even 1/3 of a backswing. But do yourself a favor, stop here, and you'll strike the ball better and won't give up any distance or speed. Might even gain some (overswingers tend to feel like they swing fast but not actually swing fast. Sequencing, etc. are out of whack.).

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Hi dsc123,

You have a nice swing and a good posture hold from the behind the line view, but a few things need a little improvement.

1) Your muscles are too tense in your back swing and are therefore, rotating & carrying the club up too far around. When you start the club back, use your body, hips, & shoulders to take it back straight and low to the ground at first. This will help you extend. It looks like you're lifting by using your arms too much. Rotate back to about a third of the way (until the shaft is horizontal) and then let momentum carry it to the top position that Eric was talking about. Shawn Clement explains this motion nicely in the following video:

Then try the exercise mentioned in this video:

You'll want to achieve what Golftec calls a "power V" position at the top of the back swing. This is where a line drawn on the edge of your back at the "top" is declined a little from a vertical line as seen in the face on view. Your angle is in the correct direction, but a little too acute. The yellow line is more optimal. In the same shot, I also drew a red circle around your left shoulder. Try to get this shoulder over the inside of your right foot, as indicated by the yellow circle. See image and video below for more details.

dsc123.jpg

Power V.jpg

And lastly, I see your right heel come up a bit soon at impact. This is a sign that you either didn't shift the hips forward aggressively enough, or that your right knee moved towards the ball instead of folding in forward towards the target and the left knee. Take a look at the next video for a tip to cure this fault. Please keep in mind that the video instructor does lift his right heel, but only when he is in the follow thru position.

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Thanks both of you for the tips.  I hope to make it to the range after work tonight if this rain ever stops.

I'll definitely work on taking a shorter backswing and more stable lower body as erik mentioned.  Those are to keys the golf tec instructor mentioned, as well.  He had me take a half swing, then showed me the video of my "half" swing and my club was still past parallel.  I guess that goes to what Erik said about feel not being real.  I'll have to use the V1 app on my phone to check myself.

The golf tec online locker or whatever you would call it had a practice video like the second MPS67 posted.  I thought the backswing looked awkward with what you call the "power V" but I'll give it a try.

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Originally Posted by dsc123

I thought the backswing looked awkward with what you call the "power V" but I'll give it a try.



It does look awkward and is a difficult position to achieve. The "power wind up" video should help. But it's important so that you can get your weight moved back during the back swing.

Most of the pros perform this move as seen in the images below.

Ricky Fowler

Ricky Fowler power V.png

Tiger Woods

Tiger Woods power V.png

Rory McIlroy

Rory McIlroy power V.png

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Originally Posted by MPS67

It does look awkward and is a difficult position to achieve. The "power wind up" video should help. But it's important so that you can get your weight moved back during the back swing.

Why do you want to move your weight back during the backswing?

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Originally Posted by iacas

Why do you want to move your weight back during the backswing?


The golfer pivots and coils their shoulders and upper torso backwards. Because their hands, shoulders, upper torso, and the club all have mass, the center of gravity moves back and the weight now centers more over their right foot's instep. This curling action of mass increases torsional forces, stores potential energy, and loads up the right side. The golfer is then in a powerful position where they can push off of the right foot's instep to initiate the downswing and more easily thrust the hips and knees forward .

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Originally Posted by MPS67

The golfer pivots and coils their shoulders and upper torso backwards. Because their hands, shoulders, upper torso, and the club all have mass, the center of gravity moves back and the weight now centers more over their right foot's instep. This curling action of mass increases torsional forces, stores potential energy, and loads up the right side. The golfer is then in a powerful position where they can push off of the right foot's instep to initiate the downswing and more easily thrust the hips and knees forward.


It would be great if it actually worked that way, huh?

The center of gravity can stay pretty much centered if the golfer makes a centered pivot. If there's a trend on the PGA Tour regarding the pivot it's moving towards a more centralized pivot, not one with lots of translation back and through. Weight shifting back makes it more difficult to get the weight far enough forward on the downswing in time to ensure that the body is in a good enough position at impact, and it leads to slower downswing speeds.

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Originally Posted by iacas

It would be great if it actually worked that way, huh?

The center of gravity can stay pretty much centered if the golfer makes a centered pivot. If there's a trend on the PGA Tour regarding the pivot it's moving towards a more centralized pivot, not one with lots of translation back and through. Weight shifting back makes it more difficult to get the weight far enough forward on the downswing in time to ensure that the body is in a good enough position at impact, and it leads to slower downswing speeds.


I agree with you that the center of gravity can stay centered. Matter of fact, isn't the swing most effective with the weight forward and one that rotates about a single axis (the axis being the one  formed from the front foot's instep up through the inner thigh, sternum, and head)? If not timed correctly, shifting the weight back and forth can diminish the rotational inertia, and as a result will lead to a reduced club head speed.

However (and IMHO) correctly transferring weight back (as I described before) does seem to work well because the golfer, with a push from the right foot's loaded instep, will be able to transfer stored potential energy (the torsion buildup) along with the additional mass (the weight that was moved back) through to the forward moving hips. Relative to a more centralized pivot, the momentum seems to me to be greater, thus increasing the hip speed - as well as the ease of, and the rate at which the upper torso can uncoil around the front pivot axis.

An interesting video on a more centralized pivot action.

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Originally Posted by MPS67

However (and IMHO) correctly transferring weight back (as I described before) does seem to work well because the golfer, with a push from the right foot's loaded instep, will be able to transfer stored potential energy (the torsion buildup) along with the additional mass (the weight that was moved back) through to the forward moving hips. Relative to a more centralized pivot, the momentum seems to me to be greater, thus increasing the hip speed - as well as the ease of, and the rate at which the upper torso can uncoil around the front pivot axis.

This isn't really the thread for it, and you can certainly read about my thoughts on the golf swing elsewhere, but to answer your questions, no, I don't think that's accurate, and studies have shown that while you may feel like you're "pushing off" that action really doesn't occur muscularly in the golf swing at all.

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Try the short feeling backswing. If you can, use video. When I started working on a shorter backswing, I'd feel like it was really short and then see video evidence that it had hardly changed. I'd do it again, this time really short, and again it had hardly changed. When I finally got it right, it felt really short. It wasn't, but it felt that way.

And trust iacas when he says that you may find more distance. I did.

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I signed up for Evolvr and I figured I'd post some videos here to catalog my progress.  Here's the first video, which I submitted on 10/23.  The two things I was told to work on based on this video was keeping the left knee steady and the weight over it and shortening the backswing.

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After a few range sessions, here is where I am.  These videos were taken yesterday.  The left knee is getting better, but I haven't really made any progress re overswinging.  I also think a big factor in the knee movement that's still present is due to the long backswing.  I started to work on that today, and I think I was starting to get it, but I didn't have my camera.

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Good progress. I can think of one person we've, no, two people we've told to swing back farther. 99.9% of golfers swing back too far. Do that and not only does your timing suffer, but you actually lose some speed outside of just the speed lost due to "timing being off."

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I find it really hard to shorten the backswing.  At first, I tried to stop at 10:30 and thought I had it, but then saw on video that I didn't.  Yesterday I worked on it more, trying to stop when my arms got parallel to the ground.  I think the momentum will carry it further, but hopefully not quite as far.   I found it really hard to swing like that because I was fighting to swing hard so that i wouldn't lose distance and also my timing was off bc i was used to swinging longer.  After a horrendous 25 balls, I think I started to get the hang of it.  When I did get it (or at least thought i did), it felt like I was swinging easier, but getting the same distance and better consistency.

After the first range session I was questioning whether this was the right move for me.  After the last two, I've left the range really excited about the prospects of improvement.

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dsc123..can really see a difference between your first video and where you are now.

I too was taking my back swing back too far this year, and like most people, when I reduced it, the game got a little better with no loss in distance.

Eric, in his video dated 11-12-11, what's your opinion on his early wrist hinge?

I used to do that, and was told it was detrimental. I assume that an early hinge won't matter as long as you wind up in the correct position at the top?

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I had issues with a long backswing, it just didn't feel natural to shorten it. Eventually I cracked it by focussing, on not moving the knees and hips (it happens anyway don't worry)... may be this will be of use?

Good Luck

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