The Cheers have Left Augusta

[iacas]

I don't think Bobby Jones vision of three wood/ wedge on every par four was part of the Master Plan either. Like almost every "Old Skewl" cousre around the world, changes are being made to defend their honor. While I am no purist of the course at Augusta National or of Mr. Jones, what would you suggest that the membership do to defend the honor of the course that is Augusta National?

C'mon, I'm not trying to be rude here, but did you read the article? I said the added length was fine - changing times and all. But changing the IDEA of the course is what bastardized it. Adding rough and all those TREES?

Read the Ben Hogan quote a few times, and consider how much angles matter at St. Andrews.

[Madriver]

C'mon, I'm not trying to be rude here, but did you read the article? I said the added length was fine - changing times and all. But changing the IDEA of the course is what bastardized it. Adding rough and all those TREES?

. ...I'll try not to be rude either. Do think the board members at Augusta National tried to bastardize the course that Mr. Jones is so honored for. Do you think the club that is synonymous with Bobby Jones would do anything intentional to discredit that vision? It may be the most exclusive club in the world. With a membership that may have to swear an allegiance to the ghost of Mr. Jones before drinking his blood preserved for initiation rituals (j/k). While I do think they are not amused by the Steven Ames quote I posted earlier, I think they did what they thought was in the best interest of Augusta National. Parroting what Golf magazine or several sports writers have offered as a problem with Augusta National is easy. Offering solutions to the problem is what a golf course architect was hired to do, not a bunch of internet bloggers. I guess what I find amusing is anyone trying to tell the membership and board at Augusta National what to do with its golf course or club.

Love always, M. Burk

[Clubswinger21]

I find it odd how you made a statment that the winning score doesnt matter in another thread. It seems like you would prefer it to play like it did in past years which is well under par(although you dont say that directly). That said im not in disagreement with you, things are alot different at augusta. And I was happy untill the final day, 'not' to hear those 2 morons screaming "get in the hole" with every tee shot (I realize thats not what you mean by "cheers have left Augusta).. I thought the Masters was the only tournament that we wouldnt have to hear that crap. But, I enjoyed the tournament, I thought it was exciting in parts, with exception to thursday and Friday.

I guess with the game changing so does tradition.. Im just happy I didnt see another Tiger Woods victory breaking the course record again at -19, while the Vijay's, Weir's and Mickelson's best effort is 8 shots back. I felt Zack played well on Sunday, maybe it was luck or maybe he carried that ridge Luke Donald couldnt 3 times in a row, or under clubbed and didnt short side himself where Phil did all week. It was different and I feel some of the things you said may be a bit over board. However, I can still see where you're coming from.

Please do factor in the cool temp, winds gusting at 15-20 mph all week, and no rain, unfortunately God is in control of the elements, not the tournament host. And I gaurantee if it had rained wednesday and thursday and the wind was calm all week.. you would've had your traditional -5 to -15 as a winning score.

[iacas]

Do think the board members at Augusta National tried to bastardize the course that Mr. Jones is so honored for.

I obviously don't think that's their intent. But they're misguided in the actions, and "bastardization" has become the result.

Do you think the club that is synonymous with Bobby Jones would do anything intentional to discredit that vision?

Again, regardless of their "intent," I believe they've done so.

Parroting what Golf magazine or several sports writers have offered as a problem with Augusta National is easy. Offering solutions to the problem is what a golf course architect was hired to do, not a bunch of internet bloggers. I guess what I find amusing is anyone trying to tell the membership and board at Augusta National what to do with its golf course or club.

Let me rephrase this for you so you can (perhaps) realize how dumb that statement is: Everyone who disagrees should just shut up because you aren't allowed to have opinions.

Uhm, yeah.

[iacas]

Please do factor in the cool temp, winds gusting at 15-20 mph all week, and no rain, unfortunately God is in control of the elements, not the tournament host. And I gaurantee if it had rained wednesday and thursday and the wind was calm all week.. you would've had your traditional -5 to -15 as a winning score.

God is, but the course setup committee is in charge of pin placements, mowing, watering, etc. The course played a little more fair on Sunday, and they watered the greens then, too.

Players were talking Thursday about the dramatic change from the day before and the first round of play. That shouldn't have been the case. And again, the article is primarily about trees and rough, neither of which belong. Rock-hard greens don't really belong either.

[Madriver]

Let me rephrase this for you so you can (perhaps) realize how dumb that statement is: Everyone who disagrees should just shut up because you aren't allowed to have opinions.

...heh...well you know what they say about opinions...I mean...well ...you know what I mean. We have tried to offer differing opinions, which you seem to take offense. By the way, the course was being altered as early as 1938. While I like your article, I don't agree with it much the same way I don't agree if global warming is cyclical or man made. Time will tell. Jack and Arnies assessments about the angles afforded by the generous fairways are interesting. Both are members at Augusta. The course has had many alterations that Mr. Jones and Mr. McKenzie probably wouldn’t approve of. We’ll never know their dead. What I don know is that it still a very exciting Masters. I don’t think you will see and over par winner on regular basis. I think the real champions that played on Sunday went for the par 5’s in two, and I think the real champions will win on a course that needs to evolve as it always has. http://www.golfclubatlas.com/augusta000150.html

[iacas]

We have tried to offer differing opinions, which you seem to take offense.

It's called discussion. I'm not taking offense, and surely I'm the expert on what I am doing.

By the way, the course was being altered as early as 1938.

They weren't pinching landing areas and adding rough.

The course has had many alterations that Mr. Jones and Mr. McKenzie probably wouldn’t approve of.

So we agree on that.

We’ll never know their dead.

Fortunately, they wrote plenty, so we do know what they think/thought.

[Madriver]

you can't be serious about rough at Augusta

[Xt1ncT]

As a keen viewer of the Masters for the last 18 years I can't disagree more with the articles sentiments. I have never seen as gripping a first 3 days than this one.

I can't remember when I was SOOO bored by the last round of the Masters. Erik is right - as hard as it is for me to say. The length is fine. But add in the trees, rough and rock hard greens you get something other than what I think Augusta National is. Zack did play well, but will he win another? No.

While I am no purist of the course at Augusta National or of Mr. Jones, what would you suggest that the membership do to defend the honor of the course that is Augusta National?

I didn't know Golf Courses had honour? I thought they just gave out the Green Jacket to the one who played the best golf, and amazed us with his skill. This cannot be said about this years tournament. Fewer birdies, fewer eagle. Fewer cheers. Definately more boring.

Which is a shame.

[nogoodhacker]

You are aware of the fact that in the old days (i.e. eight years ago), many of the areas currently infested with trees and rough were instead cut to fairway height.

I thought it was fun to watch with all those players still in contention walking up to 16. Only way it would have been better, is if Zach had finished earlier so they would all know what they needed to do.

Call me a hard ass or whatever you like; but the only way a major should reward a 275 yard slice or hook is if you get a long lucky bounce off a tree. And the rough in Augusta was not anywhere near as deep and tangled as Wingfoot was last year. You could not see the tops of the player’s shoes at Wingfoot much less the ball like you could at Augusta. On Sunday there were 8 eagles. Reason was simple; the weather almost resembled a Spring day in Georgia. I know this because I lived there for over thirty years. The winning score would have been under par if the weather would have co-operated. 20 mile an hour wind and under 50 degree temperatures is no fun to play in. You cannot control mother nature; so the players had to be more conservative and control their ball flight. That is just a bad break as far as the scoring goes.

BTW, please read and comment on the actual article, at least duplicating your posts here in the forum.

I do not understand your attitude with this part of your post. I added more to my post here because I can. As far as commenting on the article. That is what I am doing. You are bashing this years Masters and I am supporting it.

[nogoodhacker]

And again, the article is primarily about trees and rough, neither of which belong. Rock-hard greens don't really belong either.

The rough does belong and it was at least two inches shorter than Wingfoot was last year.

Trees do belong everywhere on a golf course. I hate cow pasture golf courses with only one line of trees and a cartpath separarting the fairways. Augusta has always been infamous for its tough greens. They could have watered them down more to better adjust to the crazy weather. They did not; maybe they will next year if needed. I enjoyed this years Masters.

[iacas]

Call me a hard ass or whatever you like; but the only way a major should reward a 275 yard slice or hook is if you get a long lucky bounce off a tree.

That doesn't make you a hardass. I'll jokingly say it makes you a dumbass.

Augusta National is about the ANGLES. As I said before, go ahead and try approaching #11 green from way right. I'm not going to repeat myself. The greens - and the angles into them - are what Augusta is about. NOT about forcing players to punch out from between trees.

And the rough in Augusta was not anywhere near as deep and tangled as Wingfoot was last year.

It's Winged Foot, and c'mon, shouldn't the minimum level of intelligence be spelling course names properly when discussing their merits? It's like trying to discuss Einstein's theories with someone who can't do long division.

Your later comments, which I won't bother to respond to, are simply dumb. This comment says it all:

Trees do belong

It's obvious you are incapable of discussing course architecture.

[mstuk]

Am i alone in finding the masters a real let down this year ? I do not want to see the best players on the planet struggle to make par . They way the course was setup the winner was going to be whoeber made less errors rather than the player that made more great shots. It just left me cold and i love the spectacle of the masters but the commitee know it alls have ruined it Bobby Jones will be turning in his grave.

Congratulations to Zach Johnson though great mental strength a lesson to us all.

[iacas]

Am i alone in finding the masters a real let down this year ? I do not want to see the best players on the planet struggle to make par.

Clearly you are not alone, no.

[muskegman]

Am i alone in finding the masters a real let down this year ? I do not want to see the best players on the planet struggle to make par . They way the course was setup the winner was going to be whoever made less errors rather than the player that made more great shots. It just left me cold and i love the spectacle of the masters but the committee know it alls have ruined it Bobby Jones will be turning in his grave.

Zach Johnson won it outright. He should get the credit.

AND The course was brutal. Weather conditions, trees, 500 extra yards, and super fast greens made for the unMasters. It's a shame. You are not alone.

[Xt1ncT]

Am i alone in finding the masters a real let down this year ? I do not want to see the best players on the planet struggle to make par . They way the course was setup the winner was going to be whoeber made less errors rather than the player that made more great shots. It just left me cold and i love the spectacle of the masters but the commitee know it alls have ruined it Bobby Jones will be turning in his grave.

I agree 100% with you. And that's sad, I look forward to the Masters so damn much, and this year I could watch it all because of Easter Monday (the coverage of Sunday's play started at 6.30 am Easter Monday here in New Zealand). What's worse is that on Saturday (Friday's play) I even stopped watching because it was so boring. And I've never said that before.

Zach Johnson won it outright. He should get the credit.

Absolutely - his mental state was superb. And he just played better.

The course was brutal. Weather conditions, trees, 500 extra yards, and super fast greens made for the unMasters. It's a shame. You are not alone.

Yep. They should do one or the other. If they want trees and rough, leave the length as it was. If they want the length, remove the trees and rough. With those grees approaching them with long irons was damn near impossible, even with mid irons it was pretty damn hard.

[mkoreiwo]

Well, I enjoyed the heck out of it. Yeah, it can be "thrilling" to see tons of birdies and eagles, but is that really a test for the pros? Everyone has a view on this, and there is no "correct" opinion.

I do think there is room for a lot of discussion on this years Masters, and how the course changes may - or may not - prove to be mistakes as time passes. The conditions this year made the course play very, very tough.

Mstuk mentioned that the winner was going to be whomever made the fewest errors.... isn't that ultimately who does win anyway? I always like to go back to a statement made by Jack Nicklaus, to paraphrase - How about fairways and greens?

If next year sees another brutal Masters, I think Fazio's changes may eventually be viewed as a great blunder to some, and a brilliant transformation to others....

[iacas]

Well, I enjoyed the heck out of it. Yeah, it can be "thrilling" to see tons of birdies and eagles, but is that really a test for the pros? Everyone has a view on this, and there is no "correct" opinion.

There's no "correct" opinion, but some are better than others.

Technically any course on which everyone plays under the same conditions is a "test." Some are just easier tests than others. You could host a tournament at a par-three course and you'd still get a winner. The Masters has traditionally produced the best winners of all the majors (i.e. less flukey winners). I would suggest that's because the course rewarded good players. Is this the first year we begin to see a slide in the quality of winner produced at Augusta? No disrespect to Zach Johnson... but he's closer to a Ben Curtis type at this point than a Tiger Woods. It was also one of the more exciting majors (the others had their allure, sure, but "exciting" rarely describes the U.S. Open). It's lost that as well.