My Swing (sean_miller)

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Deryck Griffith

You lag the club nicely and have a nice impact position...the lagging is actually very evident in the 3 wood picture; your arms, hands, wrists are really relaxed.

Have you ever tried to have more of a centered turn vs. shifting to the right on the backswing?  On a couple of the caddie view driver swings, you moved your weight to the right and were slow to get it moving left prior to impact

The ones pre-2010 season or the couple from last month?

[johnthejoiner]

Originally Posted by Deryck Griffith

You lag the club nicely and have a nice impact position...the lagging is actually very evident in the 3 wood picture; your arms, hands, wrists are really relaxed.

Have you ever tried to have more of a centered turn vs. shifting to the right on the backswing?  On a couple of the caddie view driver swings, you moved your weight to the right and were slow to get it moving left prior to impact

Weight must shift laterally during the full swing, it must remain centered between the feet. The weight shift should never cause either ankle to roll outward.  The left ankle rolls inward on the back-swing while the right ankle mirrors that motion on the forward swing. Golf is played between the ankles.

[Deryck Griffith]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Then I took some video outside. One especially miserable day I filmed G10 driver and Mizuno 6-iron, but the 6-iron is too short for me which I can see only after the video. Another day (slightly warmer) I hit some drivers, but took my Clevelands, which even though since lengthened, were a better fit.

This was the video that I was referencing to

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Deryck Griffith

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Then I took some video outside. One especially miserable day I filmed G10 driver and Mizuno 6-iron, but the 6-iron is too short for me which I can see only after the video. Another day (slightly warmer) I hit some drivers, but took my Clevelands, which even though since lengthened, were a better fit.

This was the video that I was referencing to

That was 2 golf seasons ago and subsequent changes made to my short irons swing (more weight forward and moving swing bottom ahead a couple inches) eventually leaked into my driver swing. My driver swing is more "centred" now, and it was a decent season for driving (season's over now), but I'm glad I took that video in 2010 because my driving was actually better back then. In early 2010, if I hit a drive <280 is was likely a complete mishit. I measured all drives after getting a laser rangefinder that summer. Most drives were in the 295 range and I had more drives >300 than <270. I was frigging striping the driver in 2010. That might have been the stick though. I hit my current driver (MP600) lower and shorter. I get to hit it more often though.

[Deryck Griffith]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

That was 2 golf seasons ago and subsequent changes made to my short irons swing (more weight forward and moving swing bottom ahead a couple inches) eventually leaked into my driver swing. My driver swing is more "centred" now, and it was a decent season for driving (season's over now), but I'm glad I took that video in 2010 because my driving was actually better back then. In early 2010, if I hit a drive <280 is was likely a complete mishit. I measured all drives after getting a laser rangefinder that summer. Most drives were in the 295 range and I had more drives >300 than <270. I was frigging striping the driver in 2010. That might have been the stick though. I hit my current driver (MP600) lower and shorter. I get to hit it more often though.

Very cool.  I noticed what you mean on the newer swing you posted...you have some really nice moves in your swing.

Next time I'm in your neck of the woods out west, I'll hit you up and we'll play a round together!

[sean_miller]

In spite of all the awesome driver [over] swings at a 1/2 mile altitude, obviously I'm not playing scratch golf. I want/need to make more putts, but hitting more fairways and greens will make sure those are birdie putts. Sounds pretty straightforward - spend more time practicing putting pre-round, hit the ball straighter, and shoot lower scores. Working on putting is so boring, but I need to spend more time warming up with the putter before rounds. To free up time for putting during the season, I'm making swing improvements now.

I signed up for a 10 lesson package at Golf Town (did 4 lessons there in 2010). One lesson down and 9 to go, here's some video of how that's going.

[iacas]

I know you don't like much so here's a quickie setup thing: your weight is back in your heels a lot (notice how your butt moves away from the wall coming into impact) and your chin is up a bit more than I might like.

So there, two setup things for you.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by iacas

I know you don't like much so here's a quickie setup thing: your weight is back in your heels a lot (notice how your butt moves away from the wall coming into impact) and your chin is up a bit more than I might like.

So there, two setup things for you.

Not sure what I cn do about the chin since that's my normal relaxed posture, but I'll definitely consider getting my COG more toward my toes. My instructor wants me to work on the same thing you pointed out (hence the vertical red line) but the drills feels awkward - too awkward - weight too much over the heels may be why. Thx.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Not sure what I cn do about the chin since that's my normal relaxed posture, but I'll definitely consider getting my COG more toward my toes. My instructor wants me to work on the same thing you pointed out (hence the vertical red line) but the drills feels awkward - too awkward - weight too much over the heels may be why. Thx.

Chin: you can point it down more. I didn't use the word "relaxed." I would want you to look at the golf ball out of the center of your eyes and eye socket, not by looking out the bottom of your eyes (or rotating your entire eye down in the socket).

Good on the other stuff. Weight distribution toe/heel is a very common issue and one that can creep up on anyone, and often does.

[johnthejoiner]

Sean if you look at your DLT video, your hips are moving forward in your back swing also. If you look at the red line on your butt, when you reach the top of your back swing your right butt cheek should be behind the line by a couple of inches at least, and in the transition into the down swing after your slight hip bump to the target you have to take your left butt cheek back to the position of a couple if inches behind the red line. We tend to forget the hips are oval in shape and are not circular, if the red line was a wall and you were to turn your hip with your butt on the wall, it would push your left hip towards the ball

Early Extension can be caused by:

* Clubs that are too long
* Standing too far away from the ball
* Having too much weight on the heels at address
* A poor swing path
* Physical limitations

Physical Limitations that can cause Early Extension:

* General lower body stiffness, joint immobility or muscle imbalances
* Poor Lead Hip Internal Rotation
* Poor segmental separation of upper and lower body
* Inability to control pelvis
* Weak glute and abs

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by johnthejoiner

Sean if you look at your DLT video, your hips are moving forward in your back swing also. If you look at the red line on your butt, when you reach the top of your back swing your right butt cheek should be behind the line by a couple of inches at least, and in the transition into the down swing after your slight hip bump to the target you have to take your left butt cheek back to the position of a couple if inches behind the red line. We tend to forget the hips are oval in shape and are not circular, if the red line was a wall and you were to turn your hip with your butt on the wall, it would push your left hip towards the ball

Early Extension can be caused by:

* Clubs that are too long

* Standing too far away from the ball

* Having too much weight on the heels at address

* A poor swing path

* Physical limitations

Physical Limitations that can cause Early Extension:

* General lower body stiffness, joint immobility or muscle imbalances

* Poor Lead Hip Internal Rotation

* Poor segmental separation of upper and lower body

* Inability to control pelvis

* Weak glute and abs

Sounds like with the calamity of errors that is my current swing it's purely by chance any part of the club ever meets the ball. Luckily I have 9 more lessons to improve the results of these chance encounters.

[johnthejoiner]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Sounds like with the calamity of errors that is my current swing it's purely by chance any part of the club ever meets the ball. Luckily I have 9 more lessons to improve the results of these chance encounters.

The good thing about this problem is it might improve by using some simple stretching exercises. You'll have to find out first where the main problem is coming from

[iacas]

Originally Posted by johnthejoiner

The good thing about this problem is it might improve by using some simple stretching exercises. You'll have to find out first where the main problem is coming from

Eh. I'm not against fitness but all too often simply understanding how to do something and knowing what causes it is the true path to fixing it. TPI likes to blame every swing fault on some kind of physical flaw or deficiency, and that's not even close to true. Improving your flexibility won't hurt, but it's not going to help as much as understanding and doing the proper motions.

I'm speaking generally. Again, not against improving fitness, just aware of the limitations (plus, most golfers don't take lessons, and an even smaller percentage are going to begin performing stretching routines).

Speaking non-generally, s_m's swing "might" improve if he stretches, yes, but it "will" improve if he understands what actually causes the problem and takes steps to fix it.

P.S. Pardon the brief OT post. We can move on now. (Or start a "Fitness vs. Instruction" thread if you want to continue.)

[johnthejoiner]

Originally Posted by iacas

Eh. I'm not against fitness but all too often simply understanding how to do something and knowing what causes it is the true path to fixing it. TPI likes to blame every swing fault on some kind of physical flaw or deficiency, and that's not even close to true. Improving your flexibility won't hurt, but it's not going to help as much as understanding and doing the proper motions.

I'm speaking generally. Again, not against improving fitness, just aware of the limitations (plus, most golfers don't take lessons, and an even smaller percentage are going to begin performing stretching routines).

Speaking non-generally, s_m's swing "might" improve if he stretches, yes, but it "will" improve if he understands what actually causes the problem and takes steps to fix it.

P.S. Pardon the brief OT post. We can move on now. (Or start a "Fitness vs. Instruction" thread if you want to continue.)

I personally would kill for his impact position, i hope Sean doesn't lose the good things in his swing in an attempt to change things to someone else perception (I'm talking about his 10 lessons) of whats the best way without knowing his physical limitations, that's of course if he has any. One things for sure a stretching program isn't going to hurt his progress, what could set him backs though is someone trying to get him to achieve certain positions that at this moment of time his body might not be capable of and the knock on effect thereafter

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by johnthejoiner

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas

Eh. I'm not against fitness but all too often simply understanding how to do something and knowing what causes it is the true path to fixing it. TPI likes to blame every swing fault on some kind of physical flaw or deficiency, and that's not even close to true. Improving your flexibility won't hurt, but it's not going to help as much as understanding and doing the proper motions.

I'm speaking generally. Again, not against improving fitness, just aware of the limitations (plus, most golfers don't take lessons, and an even smaller percentage are going to begin performing stretching routines).

Speaking non-generally, s_m's swing "might" improve if he stretches, yes, but it "will" improve if he understands what actually causes the problem and takes steps to fix it.

P.S. Pardon the brief OT post. We can move on now. (Or start a "Fitness vs. Instruction" thread if you want to continue.)

I personally would kill for his impact position, i hope Sean doesn't lose the good things in his swing in an attempt to change things to someone else perception (I'm talking about his 10 lessons) of whats the best way without knowing his physical limitations, that's of course if he has any. One things for sure a stretching program isn't going to hurt his progress, what could set him backs though is someone trying to get him to achieve certain positions that at this moment of time his body might not be capable of and the knock on effect thereafter

Its a valid concern. I can watch an instructional video on youtube for any sport and that doesn't mean this mid-40s body can perform the actions - at least not without tearing something.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by johnthejoiner

I personally would kill for his impact position, i hope Sean doesn't lose the good things in his swing in an attempt to change things to someone else perception (I'm talking about his 10 lessons) of whats the best way without knowing his physical limitations, that's of course if he has any. One things for sure a stretching program isn't going to hurt his progress, what could set him backs though is someone trying to get him to achieve certain positions that at this moment of time his body might not be capable of and the knock on effect thereafter

Stretching will not be a set back, no, I agree that's highly unlikely.

I was just reacting to the way some people think "fitness" is the answer that solves everything. The Brad Faxon "tire" story springs to mind. TPI does great work, but they're really, really into pushing fitness, for obvious reasons, as a magic bullet when oftentimes it's simple education and understanding HOW to do a certain move.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by iacas

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnthejoiner

I personally would kill for his impact position, i hope Sean doesn't lose the good things in his swing in an attempt to change things to someone else perception (I'm talking about his 10 lessons) of whats the best way without knowing his physical limitations, that's of course if he has any. One things for sure a stretching program isn't going to hurt his progress, what could set him backs though is someone trying to get him to achieve certain positions that at this moment of time his body might not be capable of and the knock on effect thereafter

Stretching will not be a set back, no, I agree that's highly unlikely.

I was just reacting to the way some people think "fitness" is the answer that solves everything. The Brad Faxon "tire" story springs to mind. TPI does great work, but they're really, really into pushing fitness, for obvious reasons, as a magic bullet when oftentimes it's simple education and understanding HOW to do a certain move.

Establish what I can do, then how to actually do it - what is the exact sequence of movements to perform to maintain a consistent impact position without losing power? My instructor (coach K) has given me some drills to do without hitting a ball. I'm starting to feel what's needed, but without swinging a club or hitting a ball the jury is still out.

I've seen a few full swing golf photos over the years where the player was filmed from below through plexiglass and that has me thinking. Is there a way to generate a sequence of images vertically (from above or below) which, when added to the FO and DTL images, would better illustrate what players hips are(n't) doing? I'm no Baryshnikov, so I have low expextations of what I'd see, but images (or video) at other angles could be a benefit.

[sean_miller]

Not feeling comfortable (yet?), but I'll roll with it for a season at least.