Tutorial on analysing Stack & Tilt swing with golf analysis software

[The_Pharaoh]

Does a tutorial explaining how to analyse the S&T; swing using golf analysis software exist? Perhaps the boys at Golf Evolution have one or can point me in the right direction. There are a lot of tutorials out there on the conventional swing, but have yet to see one on S&T.;

[iacas]

Originally Posted by The_Pharaoh

Does a tutorial explaining how to analyse the S&T; swing using golf analysis software exist? Perhaps the boys at Golf Evolution have one or can point me in the right direction. There are a lot of tutorials out there on the conventional swing, but have yet to see one on S&T.;

No. Get good camera angles and look at the pieces you want to analyze... I'm not sure I understand the question. If the head's moving, draw a line or a rectangle to see how much and in which direction(s). If the shoulder tilt isn't steep enough, draw a line perpendicular to the spine. Etc.

There's nothing unique about S&T; from a "line drawing" perspective, except perhaps the use of "shaft plane and elbow plane" as the two primarily plane lines.

But perhaps you have a more specific question?

[The_Pharaoh]

Originally Posted by iacas

But perhaps you have a more specific question?

Not really, you've pretty much answered my question. It was just to know the process S&T; instructors go through with their students when analysing their swings. I thought maybe you had parameters players should be within compared to the conventional swing. As a TPI certified instructor, I use their guidelines for video analysis however TPI teaches the conventional swing not S&T.; For e.g. for identifying a slide, TPI draws a line through the lead ankle upwards and defines a slide when the hips move past this line. We all know this is wrong. There are others, like maintaining your angles throughout the swing (the conventional swing advocates a flexed right knee) and I wanted to know just how much the knee can move back. That sort of thing...

..but don't worry, I'll figure it out as I go along and from the S&T; book!

[JetFan1983]

People simply do not realize that learning this swing from the book or DVD is about 1/10000 as good as learning it in person. I can't imagine how diminished learning from the book is when you start to have aspirations of teaching it too. That said, I respect any teacher who uses the S&T; book as a reference.

The Master-Apprentice relationship is the only way to truly learn how to teach this swing IMO. Unfortunately, I don't think there are any experts in Spain on this pattern, but if you truly wanted to know how to teach it, whether it be to a high-handicapper or a pro, this is really the only logical route one could go.

I mean, for example, I know my teacher has studied under Andy Plummer since he was five years old. That's about as ideal as it gets as far as learning this pattern. BUT, if you're not in this position, then the next best option is this: Go to a Stack and Tilt clinic somewhere here in the States. Like a two day clinic. There you'll get to meet Mike and Andy in person and get two full days of lessons from them. Not only that, but there will be other students there as well, ranging from beginner to expert. Watch Mike and Andy teach them. Watch how they approach each student based on their skill level and personality.

In my opinion, I don't think you'd regret the few thousand dollars it would cost to make this kind of trip happen for you.

[The_Pharaoh]

JetFan1983,

I couldn't agree with you more, it is not ideal but right now it is all I have. S&T; is unheard of in Spain and nobody is teaching it...at least officially. I am beginning to include components of the method in my teaching for the simple reason it works! Recently I asked a couple of my students (chronic slicers all theirs lives) if they would be willing to try S&T.; Both said yes and within a couple of lessons started hitting draws. I am the first one to admit I need extensive training on S&T; to become a really proficient instructor. The moment I get the opportunity to fly out to the US for an S&T; session I'll be the first on the plane.

[mvmac]

I agree you have to spend the time in person with the instructors.  That's what I've done and continue to do.  Just got back from the Vegas S&T; school, which is about my 12th or 13th school including Golf Evolution and Grant Waite and I always learn something new.  Whether it's a new measurement or how to teach a piece better.

Obviously S&T; is more than just weight forward, hands in, shoulder down etc, it's about utilizing a system to identify the priority piece.  Everyone's first lesson is not to go through the list, some players already take the hands in, stay centered.  Just to use the tour players as an example, they all work on different pieces and are communicated to differently.

Just also want to get into the whole "conventional" vs "S&T;".  You take the commonalities of what the great players did throughout the years and it looks a lot more like S&T; than "conventional".  I see absolutely zero reason to keep all the flex in the right knee on the backswing.  No player on tour does this, the knee HAS to lose flexion so the body can turn on an incline plane.  Conventional instruction also has been known to promote the incorrect ball flight laws.  Sorry, don't mean to be confrontational, just spent the last couple days with Andy Plummer ;-)

[The_Pharaoh]

Thanks for your comment Mike.

You are not being confrontational, I fully agree with everything you said! I am using the word conventional simply to differentiate between S&T; and what is commonly taught. It is clear from watching golf on TV that professional golfers are more S&T; than they'd like to admit.

I consider myself very fortunate to have stumbled across this website and had my eyes opened. I fully realise S&T; is not simply the 6 pieces of the basic form and is a much more complex method. This is the reason why I find myself in a little bit of a bind teaching-wise now. I refuse to carry on with the conventional (sorry!) way of teaching as I know it to be wrong, however I know I need further training on S&T; in order to adopt it 100%. I'd rather teach the S&T; method with limited knowledge, than teach people incorrectly. I want to help my students improve, not string them along in order to make money. I'd sooner give up teaching than do that.

But as you say, I am not teaching people to adopt all the components of S&T.; I simply look at the way they are swinging the club, identify where they are going wrong and then work on the piece that needs most work. I am not getting too complicated. Most of my work is weight forward for the high handicappers so they can start hitting the ball better and removing the hands turning over through impact for the low handicappers.