Hitting forged irons better than cavity backs?

[MiniBlueDragon]

Today I had a very bizarre occurrence at the local range. My grandfather has just bought a driver and wanted to work on his driving so we hit the local range and I realised my clubs were at my club and not in the car. On a whim I decided to have some fun and try out a few forged irons at the range to see how difficult they are to hit for someone of my standard. I tried out:

- Benross VX2012

- Mizuno MP-59

- Mizuno JPX 800 Pro

- Taylormade Tour Preferred CB

- Taylormade R11 (recommended by the store surprisingly enough! lol)

I didn't get on well at all with the Taylormade irons. They felt heavy in the head and a little cumbersome to swing. Shots were straight but lacked any type of penetrating ball flight.

The Mizuno JPX 800 Pros I thought I'd love but they were a bit lackluster to be honest. Nothing stood out about them for me.

The Mizuno MP-59's were sex with a grip on it. They look sexy, they are slight and neat at address and the balance and feel during the swing was amazing. Every shot was long, penetrating and arrow straight but I found myself being able to work the ball happily (with range balls!!); something unheard of with my current Yonex VMS cavity backs.

The big surprise for me was how well I hit the Benross VX2012's. I've always disliked Benross ever since I bought a 4h when I first started out and the head snapped off it on my first round of golf but these irons were balance, smooth, neat at address and boy are they playable. Every attempt at a fade was perfect. Every attempt at a draw was perfect. Every straight shot was perfect. The only downer on these was the back of the head which is a bit ugly to be fair.

Anyway all this testing got me a little carried away so throughout my buckets of balls I kept swapping back to the old VMS 6i (my grandfather has the same clubs so I was borrowing his) and every shot I hit with them felt somehow lacking. Most were reasonably straight but with a far worse dispersion than the forged irons and I even had 2 hideous hooks with them; the bane of my swing.

What I'm not understanding is why I went through a couple of hundred balls hitting every forged iron shot perfectly and every cavity back shot imperfectly? What could cause me to hit a more difficult club better than an "easy" club? Could it be the VMS's "power weighting" technology trying to correct something that doesn't need correcting (Reduced slicing on longer irons. Stability through the mid irons. Reduced pulling on short irons) maybe or is is just blind coincidence?

Should I look at trading in my few-months-old Yonex's for a set of forged if I try them out a few more times and it's not just a coincidence? *is confused*

[moparman426]

My cavity-backed irons are forged.......The process in which they are made has no bearing on whether they are blades or cb's.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by moparman426

My cavity-backed irons are forged.......The process in which they are made has no bearing on whether they are blades or cb's.

It does actually. I can think of very few forged cavity back irons that are forged as one piece of metal. Most are forged pieces welded (or glued) together. Actually, I'm not sure any forged blades are forged as one piece of metal any more (extremely old school process), but it's basically an head and a hosel. There are a few "forged" cavity backs that are really pushing the definition of forged - like the Anser, the 710 AP1s and AP2s, and many more.

ANYWAY, the Benross irons look like knockoffs and the other irons probably just have a grind that suits the OPs swing and driving range better.

BASICALLY the OP has enough evidence to consider switching to another type of iron, but has no evidence that "forged" is better than a "cavity back".

[MiniBlueDragon]

Thanks for the reply sean_miller. I guess I'm trying to figure out what the reason could be for hitting those better than my cavity backs. Will look into "grind" and see if anything makes sense as to why they were all so much better.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by MiniBlueDragon

Mmmm the sweet smell of pedantry. My favourite.

Would Sir like me to re-write the above stating whether each of them is a muscle or cavity?

Are you replying to my post? Either way, let's be honest here. The title was vague enough to lead that poster to think you have absolutely no idea about golf clubs other than the buzzwords you've read on the internet. I know this is not true, because I actually took the time to read your post. Some people obviously didn't get that far.

[GaijinGolfer]

Perhaps the shafts were different and the ones on the less forgiving clubs suit your swing better. It could also be that the swingweight of the CB irons just didnt suit your swing. Theres a lot more factors to what makes a club easy to hit than just the design of the clubhead.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by MiniBlueDragon

Thanks for the reply sean_miller. I guess I'm trying to figure out what the reason could be for hitting those better than my cavity backs. Will look into "grind" and see if anything makes sense as to why they were all so much better.

Hey, thanks for editing your reply, because that cleared that up.

Like TitleistWI says, the shaft is pretty important, and apparently the aesthetics are at least in your subconscious, so they're not to be completely discounted. I struggled to hit my Apex channelbacks off turf, but not off mats. They're just wrong somehow, even they're supposed to be easier to hit than other Hogan "blades". Well, not to me they aren't. Wanna buy some mint condition 1994 Apex channelbacks? j/k

[GaijinGolfer]

A lot of it could be mental to. Perhaps you really want to be a forged blade player, so when hitting those clubs you were really focusing on making your best swing but with the CBs you figured theyd be easy to hit because they were CBs and werent as focused.

[mymizunosrock]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Actually, I'm not sure any forged blades are forged as one piece of metal any more (extremely old school process), but it's basically an head and a hosel. There are a few "forged" cavity backs that are really pushing the definition of forged - like the Anser, the 710 AP1s and AP2s, and many more.

Actually, most if not all forged blades are forged from a single piece of billet steel. If they aren't, they should not classified as forged. What aren't forged are the irons that have forged faces in cast bodies that claim to be forged. If you are going to buy a forged iron, make sure you are clear on exactly what you are getting. I wouldn't take your TM pseudo forged irons and ask them to adjust the lie 3 degrees. Properly forged cavity backs will be no less forgiving than a cast cavity back. The forged will just feel so much better, even on mishits.

[michaeljames92]

Yep. Most cavity designs are too difficult/can't be forged. Casting allows much more intricate designs and is a much cheaper process.

Originally Posted by sean_miller

It does actually. I can think of very few forged cavity back irons that are forged as one piece of metal. Most are forged pieces welded (or glued) together. Actually, I'm not sure any forged blades are forged as one piece of metal any more (extremely old school process), but it's basically an head and a hosel. There are a few "forged" cavity backs that are really pushing the definition of forged - like the Anser, the 710 AP1s and AP2s, and many more.

ANYWAY, the Benross irons look like knockoffs and the other irons probably just have a grind that suits the OPs swing and driving range better.

BASICALLY the OP has enough evidence to consider switching to another type of iron, but has no evidence that "forged" is better than a "cavity back".

[MiniBlueDragon]

Thanks all. I've decided that I'm going to continue 'testing' various forged irons, although it may well have been blind luck how well I hit them considering how badly I played today. ;-) Also looking at sets of custom made clubs at my club as we have a resident club maker who seems to be great at it from what I've seen. Great idea on shaft and swing weight. I think I'll check out mine versus the ones I hit. sean, my initial reply was to the other guy. I deleted it as I couldn't be bothered to argue with him over something so minor. :-)

[glock35ipsc]

I am really liking the forged cavity backs that I now have on the short end of the bag.  I'm thinking of replacing the 5-6-7 irons with them as well.  Just such an awesome feel when one is properly struck.  I'm using the same shafts in both sets, but flight and direction are a lot more to my liking with the forged irons.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by mymizunosrock

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Actually, I'm not sure any forged blades are forged as one piece of metal any more (extremely old school process), but it's basically an head and a hosel. There are a few "forged" cavity backs that are really pushing the definition of forged - like the Anser, the 710 AP1s and AP2s, and many more.

Actually, most if not all forged blades are forged from a single piece of billet steel. If they aren't, they should not classified as forged. What aren't forged are the irons that have forged faces in cast bodies that claim to be forged. If you are going to buy a forged iron, make sure you are clear on exactly what you are getting. I wouldn't take your TM pseudo forged irons and ask them to adjust the lie 3 degrees. Properly forged cavity backs will be no less forgiving than a cast cavity back. The forged will just feel so much better, even on mishits.

Miura irons aren't forged? Very interesting.

See 02:26 to 03:30.

Mizuno apparently are (there are some exceptions there as well of course).

[glock35ipsc]

Great videos Sean, especially the Miura vid.

[glock35ipsc]

This thread got me curious about the exact process used to make the TE Forged irons I have.  So I asked the guys at Maltby if the TE head is one piece or two piece (head and welded hosel), and are they form forged or drop forged.  The answer "One piece, and a 5 step drop forged forging process.", so very similar to the Mizunos.

I'm glad this thread popped up, as it would not have been something I would have otherwise thought to ask about the heads.

[mymizunosrock]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Miura irons aren't forged? Very interesting.

Well, I fell short of every iron but I am very surprised that they weld a hosel onto the head, but I was not referring to that when I said they should not be called forged.

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by mymizunosrock

Well, I fell short of every iron but I am very surprised that they weld a hosel onto the head, but I was not referring to that when I said they should not be called forged.

Mr. Miura believes he gets a more consistent and higher quality product with spin welding the hosel. The ball hits a forged clubhead. Maybe you haven't hit Miura to appreciate what Mr. Miura does, especially since your handle is Mizunosrock - no bias there. lol.

BTW - I once played many Mizuno irons - from blades to MX-25s - after reshafting them, the clubmakers always complained about how the specs were off on Mizuno (as to clubhead weight). So do you want an out of spec forged one-piece clubhead or a spin hosel forged clubhead that hits the specs consistently?

It's a rhetorical question.

[nickel_aTm]

After reading this thread, I'm just curious.  Are my old school Titleist 735CM's truly forged irons?