Awkward Moment Earlier This Week

[Grumpter]

Earlier this week we were playing Glenn Mills which is one of the nicer, more expensive, courses in the philly area. Me and a friend were paired up with 2 singles before the round started. On the 4 ^th hole we are getting ready to hit our second shots when a single drives up, drops a ball and proclaims he missed his tee time and is going to play along with us. He drops a ball and tops a shot about 20 yards northwest of where he hit the shot. Our group wasn’t thrilled with the addition but figured he would try to move up with another group after he finished the hole.

We get to the next hole which is a par 3 and it now appears our new ‘friend’ fully intends to play the rest of the round with us. With the additional player we are starting to fall behind the group in front of us and his presence has disrupted our groups play. All of the sudden we felt the need to rush our shots a little to try to keep pace with the group in front. We talked amongst ourselves about the disruption and one of our group stated he was going to tell the guy he needed to move along. Just then I spot the Player Assistance ranger a hole ahead but moving our direction so we decide to wait for him to put the kibosh on the 5-some. We get off the green where the ranger has noticed our extra player and he is about to explain to us we can’t play as 5-some but then looks at our new player and goes “oh, he’s OK”. Sheeesh. I quickly say “we are starting to fall behind the group in front of us” but the Player Assistance guy says “ah you guys are fine” and moves on.

Now the situation is really awkward as none of us want the 5 ^th player in our group but now feel like we would be going against the courses wishes if we tell the guy to take a hike. So what would you do in this situation? We kept playing as a 5-some but I think the guy finally got the hint after a few more holes and moved along on his own.

[rustyredcab]

Not being there, it is easy to suggest what should/could have been done. I hope I would have asked the guy if the starter told him to join a 4-some and if not, I'd have explained that it is likely not OK with the course or with me. Sounds like he was connected and would have either have been given permission or was going to get it. If they say it OK, then other than complain after the round, I don't know what you can do. Their course, their rules.

I would NOT have made an effort to keep pace by rushing. The slow pace is the course's issue and I'd make every effort to enjoy the round. If a hole opened in front of the new 5-some, I'd have "offered" to split the group with my 2-some playing ahead and the three singles following. "Hey, this 5-some has been interesting but we are falling behind and my buddy and I did not plan for such a slow round. We're just going to play ahead as a 2-some and close the gap. You guys can follow us and it looks like you'll finish at the same time. See you." I would have said something to someone other than the ranger at the turn if we had not yet split the group.

Easy to suggest with distance and time. Not so easy when it just suddenly happens.

[Ignorant]

Depending on the situation (crowdiness) on the course you could have formed two separate groups of 2 and 3. This is what we sometimes do when a single is left without companion on a crowded course and is squeezed between groups of four.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by rustyredcab

. . . If a hole opened in front of the new 5-some, I'd have "offered" to split the group with my 2-some playing ahead and the three singles following. "Hey, this 5-some has been interesting but we are falling behind and my buddy and I did not plan for such a slow round. We're just going to play ahead as a 2-some and close the gap. You guys can follow us and it looks like you'll finish at the same time. See you." I would have said something to someone other than the ranger at the turn if we had not yet split the group.

Easy to suggest with distance and time. Not so easy when it just suddenly happens.

I agree. There could be a valid argument to either let the two singles go ahead while you absorb the random guy, or allow you guys to go on ahead and have the 3 singles join forces, but my personal thinking is that a twosome trumps three singles.

[Chief Broom]

If I'm playing in a foursome and some random guy drives up and announces he's playing with us I'd flatly decline and tell him he'll have to drop in and play behind us.  If he doesn't like it, too bad he can take that up with the ranger or the clubhouse, but the one thing he wouldn't be doing would be joining and making my group a fivesome.  Now if the guy caught up to us and politely asks, and says he has permission from the club house to make my group a fivesome, I would be much more inclined to allow him to do so, but he'd have to ask first.  It sounds like this guy is a course regular and like some course regulars he probably feels he owns the place and that non-regs have to do pretty much whatever they want.  With me he could feel that way all he wants but that still doesn't mean I'd let him barge in and make my group a fivesome just to suit him.

You can stand up to people without being rude or ugly, but you do have to be firm and not let them run over you.  Speak your mind.  Do it politely but speak your mind right away and you just might find that awkward situations like these won't happen to you anywhere near as often.

[Grumpter]

Quote:

If I'm playing in a foursome and some random guy drives up and announces he's playing with us I'd flatly decline and tell him he'll have to drop in and play behind us.  If he doesn't like it, too bad he can take that up with the ranger or the clubhouse, but the one thing he wouldn't be doing would be joining and making my group a fivesome.  Now if the guy caught up to us and politely asks, and says he has permission from the club house to make my group a fivesome, I would be much more inclined to allow him to do so, but he'd have to ask first.  It sounds like this guy is a course regular and like some course regulars he probably feels he owns the place and that non-regs have to do pretty much whatever they want.  With me he could feel that way all he wants but that still doesn't mean I'd let him barge in and make my group a fivesome just to suit him.

You can stand up to people without being rude or ugly, but you do have to be firm and not let them run over you.  Speak your mind.  Do it politely but speak your mind right away and you just might find that awkward situations like these won't happen to you anywhere near as often.

I agree with you Chief Broom. If I was with a group where I knew all 3 of the other players I would have told the guy right away that he wasn’t going to be playing along. However, with 2 guys I didn’t know in the group I wasn’t sure how they would react. In the moment it felt like the right choice because it gave me time to talk with the 2 players I didn’t know (we were a little spread out as we were all by our tee shots, not exactly next to each other) and I figured at worst the guy would move on after completing the hole.

I figured the situation would resolve itself quickly without having to tell the guy to get packing. We would have been better off if the Player Assistance ranger hadn’t been within our sight on the second hole where we had the 5 ^th player.

[Chief Broom]

It always burns me when I see course regulars run over everybody else.  They do it because they feel they have more right to the course because they've been there forever and do support the course (sometimes these types will be course volunteers who trade their time for reduced rates, etc.).  If you confront these types and tell them how what they are doing actually hurts the course by discouraging new people to play there more often or to join they often won't care because they want to see the course less crowded, especially when they are playing.  When I was younger and learning the game I'd catch plenty of this kind of attitude, but now that I'm older I have little tolerance for it when I see it.  At the muni I'm a member of I see a lot of this kind of thing.  People jumping holes to avoid bottlenecks, etc. and I'm content to let it go as long as it doesn't impinge on me or my game, but if it does I'm going to stand up for myself.  You can report this kind of behavior to the clubhouse staff, but truth be told more often than not nothing will be done about it because these guys are course regulars and the staff may well depend on their regular business and other course activities.  Me I'm going to call someone if their course behavior effects me and is counter to golf etiquette.  In other words jumping in front of me without asking and making me wait, etc.  They still might do it and I'm not going to escalate any kind of confrontation with someone over this, but they aren't going to get my approval for something I'm really not happy about to begin with.

[rustyredcab]

Originally Posted by Chief Broom

It always burns me when I see course regulars run over everybody else.  They do it because they feel they have more right to the course because they've been there forever and do support the course (sometimes these types will be course volunteers who trade their time for reduced rates, etc.).  If you confront these types and tell them how what they are doing actually hurts the course by discouraging new people to play there more often or to join they often won't care because they want to see the course less crowded, especially when they are playing.  When I was younger and learning the game I'd catch plenty of this kind of attitude, but now that I'm older I have little tolerance for it when I see it.  At the muni I'm a member of I see a lot of this kind of thing.  People jumping holes to avoid bottlenecks, etc. and I'm content to let it go as long as it doesn't impinge on me or my game, but if it does I'm going to stand up for myself.  You can report this kind of behavior to the clubhouse staff, but truth be told more often than not nothing will be done about it because these guys are course regulars and the staff may well depend on their regular business and other course activities.  Me I'm going to call someone if their course behavior effects me and is counter to golf etiquette.  In other words jumping in front of me without asking and making me wait, etc.  They still might do it and I'm not going to escalate any kind of confrontation with someone over this, but they aren't going to get my approval for something I'm really not happy about to begin with.

I know you are not suggesting that all regulars are to painted with that same wide brush. I am a regular at a public course and I act like I own it. That is, I treat everyone as if they are a guest in my home. Guests come first. Guests get the best I have to offer. I'll have plenty of chances to play the course again. This may be their first, last, or only time. I want them to like it. If I can do something to enhance their experience, I'll do it. I jump holes all the time because I'd rather just avoid a bottleneck than ask to play through. When I play alone, I want to stay out of everyone's way. When I am invited to join a group, I play their tees and offer advise about the course if asked. I see other regulars that act the same way.

Sure, there are jerks at all clubs who treat others badly and think of themselves first. Sounds like the guy in the OP may have been one of them. Being a regular may have encouraged the ranger to let him get away with bad behavior but, he was likely inconsiderate of other players coincidental to his regular status.

[newtogolf]

Tough situation, I'd be annoyed this guy just walked and turned our 4-some into a 5-some without even asking but I'd also feel it's not my place to say no when there are three other people in the group with me.  Also have to figure if he was arrogant enough to walk up as he did he'd not react well to being told no which could get really awkward.

Most likely I'd do what others stated and suggested that me and my friend play ahead because as a 5-some we were slowing everyone down.  It's no fun to feel the groups behind you breathing down your neck and rushing your shots to keep pace.

[Chief Broom]

I'm not.  In fact I'm a regular at the muni I'm a member of and a semi-private club I'm also a member at, and I sure try not to act like a jerk either.  The thing is this behavior does happen and it can put course management in an equally awkward position because they don't want to run off the regular who may well be a steady customer in favor of a visitor who might only play there a couple of times a year at best.  In the OP's situation I blame the course ranger as much as the ill mannered guy who just drove up and forced his way into the group.  And by the OP's discription I'd say that the ranger was feeling just the kind of pressure I'm talking about when it comes to correcting someone who should be corrected but management doesn't want to take the chance of insulting the "wrong" guy.

Originally Posted by rustyredcab

I know you are not suggesting that all regulars are to painted with that same wide brush.

[BuckeyeNut]

Very awkward.....

My first question is does this course even allow 5-somes?  Most courses don't, but I know some do.  It sounds like that guy handled the situation very poorly.

I've joined groups mid-round before, but I'd like to think I handle things very differently. Where I play doesn't allow 5's.....so if I join somebody, it's always something less than a 4-some.  When I do is usually weekday evenings after work when it's a pot-luck of singles and 2's pairing up anyway.  Rather than get behind an evening league, I sometimes will find a spot in front of the league or catch a 2 or 3some at the turn.  I always politely ask if it's OK first....if they say no, I'm happy to go elsewhere.  I rarely get a no....almost never. I always ask with a big smile, so how can anybody say no to me?  LOL

People I pair with sometimes are self conscious about their play after seeing me hit the ball, but I always make sure to put them at ease.  I enjoy playing with people of all skill levels and I really mean that. Golf is about good company...  My only pet peeve is falling behind....I don't care if they shoot 120 so long as we keep pace.  I'm definitely not the guy causing a holdup.....

[WUTiger]

As soon as he said, "I missed my tee time," he had no standing in my world.

From the ranger's reaction, the drop-in might have been a local "celebrity" or owner's relative of some kind who gets special treatment.

I would have gotten the guy's name, and taken it up with the Pro Shop after the round. If the course regularly gives special treatment to local twits, I'd play elsewhere in the future.

[Grumpter]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeNut

Very awkward.....

My first question is does this course even allow 5-somes?  Most courses don't, but I know some do.  It sounds like that guy handled the situation very poorly.

I don't specifically recall seeing a "no fivesomes" declaration and they have nothing listed as such on their website but I highly doubt they would allow it. The course is one of the premier public courses in PA and has received some national recognition (not only for the fact that it is a nice track but because the course is maintained by the Glenn Mills school for troubled youths).

Quote:

As soon as he said, "I missed my tee time," he had no standing in my world.

From the ranger's reaction, the drop-in might have been a local "celebrity" or owner's relative of some kind who gets special treatment.

I would have gotten the guy's name, and taken it up with the Pro Shop after the round. If the course regularly gives special treatment to local twits, I'd play elsewhere in the future.

As soon as he dropped his ball and proclaimed he was going to play along with us this guy was trouble. His statement that he missed his tee time just made me think 'go figure'. Then his first shot he tops 20 yards northwest of where he hit it. I've known this guy for all of 1 minute and he's already annoyed me 3 times (not that I'm not easily annoyed).

[imtomtomim]

I would have probably told him that we're already 4 so he should keep driving up and see if there were any 3somes ahead and join with them.  I don't understand skipping 4 holes just to make a group of 5.  That makes no sense at all.  If he's willing to skip that many, just keep going until you find an appropriate space.

[Grumpter]

I have no idea if he skipped the first few holes. For all we knew he played through the other groups behind us or forced his way in with them.

[BuckeyeNut]

Originally Posted by WUTiger

As soon as he said, "I missed my tee time," he had no standing in my world.

LOL...if he missed his tee time, why wouldn't he simply join "HIS GROUP" mid-round?....rather than jump-in with some strangers?. LOL

[Undr Par]

Originally Posted by Grumpter

We get off the green where the ranger has noticed our extra player and he is about to explain to us we can’t play as 5-some but then looks at our new player and goes “oh, he’s OK”. Sheeesh. I quickly say “we are starting to fall behind the group in front of us” but the Player Assistance guy says “ah you guys are fine” and moves on.

who was the guy that the Ranger stated.."Oh he's ok" was he the owners of the course nephew Son etc..? what/who..seemed a bit odd that once he noticed him it was oh he's ok...weird

[DoGolf Rob]

Having played golf for over 20 years now I have never heard of this happening before. If I had missed my tee time I would never think to just walk up to another group, drop a ball and start playing. In my mind if you miss a tee time you try and get on another one and if that isn't possible then you don't play that day.

I dont know exactly what I would have done but I think the best option would be to ask him if he was told to specifically join your group, and if not then tell him that you are uncomfortable playing in a 5-ball as you dont want to upset the course officials and the other golfers by being slow.