Does President Obama play too much Golf?

[Joakim]

+1

Let's try this again, without me hitting the send key While were going above and beyond the outer limits of this topic.....

Dick Winters was the most humble and unassuming man I have heard considering his endeavors in WWII. He was a true hero but gave all the credit to the people he fought with and that was left behind.

Let me preface this by stating I never understood the two party system. Republicans vote for Republican, Democrats vote for Democrat on all, Bills, Policies, Issues and endorsing other candidates because they must vote that way to get continued support from their party. They don't vote on the merit of the issue or common sense but simply to support their party. The stupidity in that is just insane . How can you ever have a cohesive Government when you need to pass a bill that must go through Democratic controlled House and Republican Senate? A President that switches everything back and forth on incoming new parties. Everything will end in a stale mate.

IMHO, all politicians should be judged by the people to make it their Number 1 priority is UNBIASED decisions based on common sense. We have Social Media now people, I believe we could get Our opinions Heard, and if not supported that politician should be impeached . Including the President (golfing to much shouldn't be an impeachable offense). Additionally, both parties should have every "Special Interest Groups" both highly visible to the public and highly scrutinized on any issues pertaining to that particular detonator. I also believe that the President has way to much power on each issue that will ultimately have major repercussions for our Country. How can we as people allow one person to state what the amount of our different tax codes will be set. Or who we will go to war with. Yea, I know it supposed to go through Senate and House approvals, but that's not always the case and again we are back to that Stalemate situation.

This Ping Pong effect of switching our Governments Dem/Rep is what is destroying our country. I say we implement immediately a easy way to impeach electives, we implement controls to eliminate Special Interest Controls and we start firing people for simply voting because partisan obligations. Why not run this country like Corporations, were you have Non Partied advisers, with the peoples input, that must review all issues for common sense before basing your platform.

1) How can we elect a President that represents the rich and cheats himself on tax breaks. I would want someone that has stiffer policies.

2) How can we re-elect a President that hasn't done anything at creating jobs except throwing money at it.

I hear you some of you bragging about your investments, are these the same people that were crying to me in 2009. Do you really think this is over??? Do you not realize how fast it turned and can again? Obama did several things such as extend unemployment extensions. Guess what folks, them extensions are being canceled at the first of the year? Do you realize what will happen when maybe a million more people have no income. Hum, I wonder why Obama set it for 12-29 instead of 11-1??? Because he already knows.

The collapse of the people will be the collapse of the rich. So no leach type comments. No one is solving the problem.  AMERICA BACK TO WORK. What we can't manufacture things? We can't improve our Health Care? Make more things over here? We export everything, even Customer Service jobs. 'We can't improve our transportation? I bet lieve that's what Theodore Rosevelt did in getting us out of the last depression. Instead of financing the unemployed, well fare or disabled, Let's train them, use them and get them back to work in any way to help improve America.

Finally, We also must start to slow down our Military dependence, who do you think is giving Romney his $$$ . Obama campained last term on eliminating War but he soon realized this would be difficult, if not impossible without a plan. Problems can solved by taking slow steps towards one direction, not by ignoring them. Yes, This will be tough, but necessary. We can't continue to spend everything on Military, especially in a World that our goal that a Peaceful World. Not an economy reliant on one.

Yes, I do remember reading this document somewhere.......

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, –That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

I'll end this by stating these are my humble opinions (so no rude comments please) from a Non-College Educated person. I was to busy getting real life experience in Corporate America. Any errors as stated are solely mine and I endorse this statement.

God Bless America... And we do need your Help!!

[phan52]

Originally Posted by Joakim

Yes, I do remember reading this document somewhere.......

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, –That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

I'll end this by stating these are my humble opinions (so no rude comments please) from a Non-College Educated person. I was to busy getting real life experience in Corporate America. Any errors as stated are solely mine and I endorse this statement.

God Bless America... And we do need your Help!!

The Declaration of Independence is not a legal document. It is a letter sent to the King of England stating that the people had the right to free themselves from the tyranny of the Throne.

I perfer the Constitution of the US, and the Preamble, which is more concerned with the government of the people than any reference to God. Pray all you want, but I prefer to think that God doesn't take sides.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity , do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Rigt wingers prefer to stop reading after the line about "common defence" because promoting the "general Welfare" is not on their agenda.

[Fourputt]

Wow.  Just sat through the center of a hurricane and more than 3 days without power or communications, and yet all I missed here was a half dozen more pages of nothing different.  Neither side has changed the tune by even a single note.  You guys are about as effective as Congress at debating a point or successfully arguing your case (or at finding any useful resolution).

Quote:

Rigt wingers prefer to stop reading after the line about "common defence" because promoting the "general Welfare" is not on their agenda.

The term is "promoting" the General Welfare, not buying it.

[phan52]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Quote:

Right wingers prefer to stop reading after the line about "common defence" because promoting the "general Welfare" is not on their agenda.

The term is "promoting", not buying.

As if you know the difference.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by phan52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Quote:

Right wingers prefer to stop reading after the line about "common defence" because promoting the "general Welfare" is not on their agenda.

The term is "promoting", not buying.

As if you know the difference.

Oh... outstanding argument.  When you run out of left wing quotes to parrot, then you resort to name calling.  It shouldn't be long now before Erik ends this thread.

[phan52]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Oh... outstanding argument.  When you run out of left wing quotes to parrot, then you resort to name calling.  It shouldn't be long now before Erik ends this thread.

The bottom line is that money is power in this country. The government is run by K Street, not Congress or the White House. And it is unfortunate that only people of means have a voice today and it will become especially true with a GOP led Congress and White House.

People in this country constantly vote against their better interests because they are swayed by the money machine that tells them to be afraid of people of color or who have limited resources because of the threat of "redistribution". It's nonsense and it is un-American.

And I am not "religious" in the sense of organized religion, but I know what Jesus would do. And it ain't what is being preached by right wing Evangelistic whackos.

[Joakim]

Originally Posted by phan52

The Declaration of Independence is not a legal document. It is a letter sent to the King of England stating that the people had the right to free themselves from the tyranny of the Throne.

I perfer the Constitution of the US, and the Preamble, which is more concerned with the government of the people than any reference to God. Pray all you want, but I prefer to think that God doesn't take sides.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Rigt wingers prefer to stop reading after the line about "common defence" because promoting the "general Welfare" is not on their agenda.

I would be inclined to believe God would simply want "Peace on Earth" and "Thou shalt not kill".

I don't understand your agruement are you saying, Promote the "general welfare" would not be the goal of right wingers. They don't want to secure the Blessing of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity???

That's a bit presumtuous don't you think?

[phan52]

Originally Posted by Joakim

I would be inclined to believe God would simply want "Peace on Earth" and "Thou shalt not kill".

I don't understand your agruement are you saying, Promote the "general welfare" would not be the goal of right wingers. They don't want to secure the Blessing of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity???

That's a bit presumtuous don't you think?

Like I said, I don't think God takes sides. Seriously, do you think that a person praying that his house isn't blown a way in the tornado has an advantage over the guy who is just hoping? But I know what Jesus would do, and it isn't anything close to what looney "Christians" in this country propose. I am sure that Jesus is appalled by what passes for Christianity in this country.

And right wingers have changed the definition of "welfare", to the detriment of promoting it, for the foreseeable future.

[Joakim]

Originally Posted by phan52

Like I said, I don't think God takes sides. Seriously, do you think that a person praying that his house isn't blown a way in the tornado has an advantage over the guy who is just hoping? But I know what Jesus would do, and it isn't anything close to what looney "Christians" in this country propose. I am sure that Jesus is appalled by what passes for Christianity in this country.

And right wingers have changed the definition of "welfare", to the detriment of promoting it, for the foreseeable future.

I now fully understand where your perspective comes from.

[phan52]

Originally Posted by Joakim

I now fully understand where your perspective comes from.

Only people of means have a voice in this country. Decisions like Citizen's United will guarantee that, and a Romney Presidency will only make sure that the SCOTUS takes that even further.

Combine that with their neo-con based foreign policy ideas that there is strength in promoting fear as opposed to respect, unilateral belligerence as opposed to diplomacy, and I have deep concerns about the direction of this country.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by phan52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Oh... outstanding argument.  When you run out of left wing quotes to parrot, then you resort to name calling.  It shouldn't be long now before Erik ends this thread.

The bottom line is that money is power in this country. The government is run by K Street, not Congress or the White House. And it is unfortunate that only people of means have a voice today and it will become especially true with a GOP led Congress and White House.

People in this country constantly vote against their better interests because they are swayed by the money machine that tells them to be afraid of people of color or who have limited resources because of the threat of "redistribution". It's nonsense and it is un-American.

And I am not "religious" in the sense of organized religion, but I know what Jesus would do. And it ain't what is being preached by right wing Evangelistic whackos.

That's because what you call "redistribution" is just too close to "communism" for anyone who grew up in the Cold War as I did.   Take away the ability to keep what you have earned and you remove the incentive to try.  The US wasn't built on "redistribution", it was built on free enterprise.  Nobody would deny that there were abuses under that appellation, but none the less, that's what made the United States into a superpower.  There are enough measures in place now to provide oversight to mitigate such abuses of labor and power, and it mostly works.

And calling the right racist is a copout.  The right is no more racist than the left.  The minority of citizens on both sides who do feel that way are just pointing fingers in different directions.  I'm now living in a country where whites are a distinct minority, and the finger pointing goes on here too.  Our best friends are a mixed race couple, successfully own and operate their own business, and most of our friends are black.  I'm about as non-racist as a person can be, but I'm also a fiscal conservative (not wholly conservative on some environmental and social issues).  I was raised in a conservative family, switched sides for a short while, then saw the light and came part way back.   My grandmother was a staunch Republican, but she was also death on bigots, and she taught us kids the same principles.

You just can't pigeonhole people like you are trying to do.  We are all individuals, and I include you in that statement.

[phan52]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

That's because what you call "redistribution" is just too close to "communism" for anyone who grew up in the Cold War as I did.   Take away the ability to keep what you have earned and you remove the incentive to try.  The US wasn't built on "redistribution", it was built on free enterprise.  Nobody would deny that there were abuses under that appellation, but none the less, that's what made the United States into a superpower.  There are enough measures in place now to provide oversight to mitigate such abuses of labor and power, and it mostly works.

And calling the right racist is a copout.  The right is no more racist than the left.  The minority of citizens on both sides who do feel that way are just pointing fingers in different directions.  I'm now living in a country where whites are a distinct minority, and the finger pointing goes on here too.  Our best friends are a mixed race couple, successfully own and operate their own business, and most of our friends are black.  I'm about as non-racist as a person can be, but I'm also a fiscal conservative (not wholly conservative on some environmental and social issues).  I was raised in a conservative family, switched sides for a short while, then saw the light and came part way back.   My grandmother was a staunch Republican, but she was also death on bigots, and she taught us kids the same principles.

You just can't pigeonhole people like you are trying to do.  We are all individuals, and I include you in that statement.

I grew up in the Cold War. I was well aware of the Cuban missile crisis as it occurred my friend, as I was hiding under my desk at school during the "duck and cover" air raid drills. What does that have to do with it? Tax rates were at their highest during those times and we did just fine. And "redistribution" has been a part of the US since they have collected taxes. The "New Deal", which saved this country, is now being vilified in RW circles, when it is responsible for what became the burgeoning middle class throughout the 50's and 60's. My father and all of his friends used the GI Bill to advance their opportunities when they got back from WW II. That wasn't "redistribution"? What is the Earned Income Tax Credit (started by Reagan, BTW) if not "redistribution"? What are Pell Grants?

The RW in this country has poisoned the well when it comes to opportunity. Like I said. "promoting the general Wlfare" is something that they turn a tin ear to unless they are creating fear of minorities and people of little means. "Redistribution" has become their watchword for the 47% that Romney was talking about, as if they are all wefare vagrants. Un-American at it's core.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

That's because what you call "redistribution" is just too close to "communism" for anyone who grew up in the Cold War as I did.   Take away the ability to keep what you have earned and you remove the incentive to try.  The US wasn't built on "redistribution", it was built on free enterprise.  Nobody would deny that there were abuses under that appellation, but none the less, that's what made the United States into a superpower.  There are enough measures in place now to provide oversight to mitigate such abuses of labor and power, and it mostly works.

And calling the right racist is a copout.  The right is no more racist than the left.  The minority of citizens on both sides who do feel that way are just pointing fingers in different directions.  I'm now living in a country where whites are a distinct minority, and the finger pointing goes on here too.  Our best friends are a mixed race couple, successfully own and operate their own business, and most of our friends are black.  I'm about as non-racist as a person can be, but I'm also a fiscal conservative (not wholly conservative on some environmental and social issues).  I was raised in a conservative family, switched sides for a short while, then saw the light and came part way back.   My grandmother was a staunch Republican, but she was also death on bigots, and she taught us kids the same principles.

You just can't pigeonhole people like you are trying to do.  We are all individuals, and I include you in that statement.

Not to speak for Phan but I'm pretty sure the quotes around "redistribution" were there to show that it wasn't his word.  It's the Rebublican/right wing euphamism for another favorite of theirs, "socialism."  And now "communism" as well.

Those words have been used to describe Obama and his policies (also left wing policies in general) for the last four years.  I have yet to hear a single valid explanation why reverting the taxes back to the levels they were in the 80's or 90's is socialism.

Anybody care to give it a try?

[x129]

Socialism is Bad. Obama is bad. Therefore Obama is a socialist. Don't they teach anything in school these days? Taxes have always (and will always) redistribute money. The question is where does it get redistributed to.  Do you prefer defense contractors or health care? Working people or wall street?

It is like the complaints about the 47% not paying taxes. Most of the increase in nonPayers among workers is due to Bush's tax policies. The tax credits for child and child care allow families making 50k to pay zero taxes.  Repeal all those cuts and the number of nonpayers will drop. The other kicker is that the highest nonPayer states are pretty much republicans except Florida: http://taxfoundation.org/sites/taxfoundation.org/files/UserFiles/Image/Fiscal%20Facts/20100524-229-nonpayers-map-.jpg Turns out that Mitt does gets a lot of the freeloader vote.

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Not to speak for Phan but I'm pretty sure the quotes around "redistribution" were there to show that it wasn't his word.  It's the Rebublican/right wing euphamism for another favorite of theirs, "socialism."  And now "communism" as well.

Those words have been used to describe Obama and his policies (also left wing policies in general) for the last four years.  I have yet to hear a single valid explanation why reverting the taxes back to the levels they were in the 80's or 90's is socialism.

Anybody care to give it a try?

[dave67az]

Originally Posted by Parker0065

"Does President Obama play too much Golf?"

Boy did this thread got 10,000,000 miles "OFF TOPIC" so might as well go all the way!

As far as Obama playing to much golf? Playing too much golf is the least of his inadequacies! I can't recall a President that has divided the country so sharply as Obama has in just about any policy you can think of. He has no ability at all to lead and compromise to come up with valid solutions to problems that a vast majority can live with. That is a direct reflection of "Piss Poor Leadership" on his part. I've had Lieutenant's and Captains in the Light Infantry that would run circles around this clown when it comes to being a leader. It's sad to see this great nation bickering amongst themselves, blaming each other for both sides shortcommings. But that's what happens when you have "Piss Poor Leaders" in charge. A lot of finger pointing and blaming instead of sound solutions and compromise!

One thing I learned as a Light Infantry Sergeant years ago was that if you show sound leadership qualities, your subordinates will follow you through the gates of hell. My inspiration as a leader has come from men like Dick Winters, Battalion commander of 2nd Battalion 506th Infantry, 101st Airborne during WWII. I want to believe that there are still men out there like Colonel Winters but unfortunately for every single American in this country today that type of man and leader has not stepped up to the plate since 1952.

I personally don't believe there's is a good choice in candidates that can provide coherant leadership and bring the country together in this upcoming election. It is what it is,,,It's just a shame to see this great nation lead by incompetent leaders like Obama( and not much better with Romney) when there has to be better men(or women) out there that have actual leadership skills that can bring the country together without all this bickering and finger pointing!

God help us!!!!!!!!

I agree with a lot of your comments here.  Just a few things:

1.  If you truly believe that Obama is the one who divided this country and it wasn't just as divided before he took office, you've been asleep for a few decades.  The reactions of the morons after 9/11 who wanted to blame everything on the Bush administration, calling it a conspiracy, saying that they weren't airplanes but cruise missiles that destroyed the WTC and Pentagon...all evidence of that division LONG before anyone even knew who Barack Obama was.

2.  You're damn right, there is far too much finger-pointing in the country.  The sad thing is, every day on my Facebook feed I see people making comments about how bad the finger-pointing is.  Then it's usually followed with the same finger-pointing that you just engaged in.  You're going to seriously call out finger-pointers right after you blame the divisions in the country on Obama?

Obama didn't create the divisions.  Bush didn't create the divisions.  Clinton didn't even create the divisions.  Matter of fact, I remember hearing a divided country crying out the first time we went to Iraq (Desert Storm).  Those divisions have gotten louder and louder over the past 20+ years.  To say that Obama has anything to do with it not only contradicts your apparent view on finger-pointing, but it contradicts logic.

I'm not sure if this is your idea of good leadership, unless you were trying to demonstrate what one shouldn't do when it comes to finger-pointing.  I dealt with great leaders and crappy leaders in my military career.  The worst of them were really good at blame-shifting.  I sure as hell hope what you posted here isn't really what you believe to be true.

Keep in mind, I'm not saying Obama is a "great leader".  He is, however, charismatic and this is exactly why he was able to enlist the support needed to win the election 4 years ago.  And you can hate his policies as much as you want (I hate several of them myself) but he put his efforts exactly where he said he would when he ran.  He passed his healthcare bill. He asked the military to change the regulations so we don't have to tell homosexuals to lie about their lifestyle (even though we've known for years that there were gays in the military).  He continued the efforts to pull our troops out of Iraq and now Afghanistan.  He even tried to close Gitmo (which was pretty much an impossible situation, and he wasn't really smart for saying he was going to close it before he even looked at the logistics of the situation, but hey, he at least TRIED to hold to his stupid promise).  The point is, he actually did what he SAID he was going to do (the things he had control over, at least).

So to blame everything on him...yeah, that just calls your own leadership abilities into question because he didn't do anything that he didn't say he was going to do.  Stop shifting blame.  If you want to blame someone, blame the voters who put him in office.  But the divisions were there long before, which is one of the reasons that there was no compromise in government the past four years.  Democrats and Republicans are refusing to compromise on ANYTHING because their constituents are telling them NOT to.  The sooner the voters send the message that we WANT compromise and we WANT cooperation across the aisle, the sooner we'll see it.

But if you're going to sit back and say that "my side is better than yours and I'll never compromise my values", well, get used to the stalemates in Washington.  You're part of the problem if you do that.  The solution is COMPROMISE.  This doesn't just mean the OTHER GUY compromising his values so you don't have to compromise yours.  It has to be BOTH sides.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by reflection

As a frequent player at Andrews Air Force base, I do get annoyed when Obama plays there because:

-they close the South course down for other players 2-3 hours ahead and behind his round.  If you had a tee time, tough luck.  You just got booted.  They will try to reschedule you on one of the other two courses, but they suck in comparison to the South course.

-it cost the tax payers $100,000s each round he plays.  there are at least 30 carts for his group.  Mostly for his secret service team to patrol the area near him while he's playing.

-ruins my weekend plans when he plays

thankfully he doesn't play there as often anymore.  Just be glad he doesn't play at your home course.

Just to point out how interested we all are in politics at this election time ... this thread was started last December (by mvmac) and basically ended within 2 weeks and 50-something posts total.

It was left for dead until 11 days ago when the above was posted, and now look how far we've come.

Too bad "kickstarter" of the month only applies to threads actually started.  I guess reflection would be assured of the "kick-bumper" of the month if that award existed, huh?

[Note to self:  Start a thread about politics in October 2016 so I can win an award!]

[jamo]

Just to point out how interested we all are in politics at this election time ... this thread was started last December (by mvmac) and basically ended within 2 weeks and 50-something posts total. It was left for dead until 11 days ago when the above was posted, and now look how far we've come. Too bad "kickstarter" of the month only applies to threads actually started.  I guess reflection would be assured of the "kick-bumper" of the month if that award existed, huh? [Note to self:  Start a thread about politics in October 2016 so I can win an award!]

Maybe Mike will have to retroactively give himself the December 2011 kickstarter award. :-D

[David in FL]

Socialism is Bad. Obama is bad. Therefore Obama is a socialist. Don't they teach anything in school these days?:-)   Taxes have always (and will always) redistribute money.

Close, but no...... ......it's "Socialism is bad. Obama is Socialist. Therefore Obama is bad." I hope that helps. :-) Taxes are NOT and should not be for redistribution of wealth. They're to provide revenue that the government needs in order to provide those functions as outlined in the Constitution. Taking money from one person, with the express intent to give it to another, is not one of those functions.