For love of the game...

[LuciusWooding]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

Maybe, but the mentality that you must experience a course from the tips is analagous to wanting to ski an entire mountain trail regardless of skill level.  Golfers don't fall to their death when they play from the wrong tee boxes but maybe there needs to be more of a penalty than exists today to discourage the behavior.

The penalty is that if they lack the length to play the tips, they shoot a crappy score. If their score isn't enough of a deterrent, not much you can do. I can't see why it would bother you if the group kept up a decent pace. That's where the issue is.

Slow play is annoying, but it isn't going to go away by moving up a set of tees, and enforcing what tees to play from is a dick move imo. People on 4000 yard executive courses still often take 5 hours... Do you think they'd play faster from the women's tees, with a cart, in a dress, etc.? It's more about being considerate and not taking a 5 minute warm up. That said, many people play infrequently and have very casual rounds, not worrying about time. The best solution I've heard is where a timer is given to each group to remind them of the proper pace, and tee times are posted at several holes to indicate the group's desired progress.

[Kobey]

Is there really that much of a difference between the tees?  My home course is 5635 from the whites and 6067 from the blues.  That is only 432 more yeards over 18 holes.  The rating and slope is 70.1/120 for the blues and 68.2/116 from the whites.  I've never played from the blues yet but it doesn't seem like that big of a difference.

[newtogolf]

I agree pace of play and skill level isn't always related, but casual players, drinking beer and playing from the tips likely don't care about their score and are likely to slow down play.  A timer could work but you have to still deal with how a timer and the rules of golf are combined.  The rules of golf allows 5 minutes to search for a lost ball, how will that work within a "timed" framework?

Originally Posted by LuciusWooding

The penalty is that if they lack the length to play the tips, they shoot a crappy score. If their score isn't enough of a deterrent, not much you can do. I can't see why it would bother you if the group kept up a decent pace. That's where the issue is.

Slow play is annoying, but it isn't going to go away by moving up a set of tees, and enforcing what tees to play from is a dick move imo. People on 4000 yard executive courses still often take 5 hours... Do you think they'd play faster from the women's tees, with a cart, in a dress, etc.? It's more about being considerate and not taking a 5 minute warm up. That said, many people play infrequently and have very casual rounds, not worrying about time. The best solution I've heard is where a timer is given to each group to remind them of the proper pace, and tee times are posted at several holes to indicate the group's desired progress.

[LuciusWooding]

It's more of a gentle reminder. I once played an opening par 3 on one course with my friend who was playing for the first time. Obviously I took my time waiting for him to shoot, I usually play pretty fast.

The starter followed us after the hole and told us how long we took, and I had no clue we took over 15 minutes. We agreed to pick up the pace, of course. Without being told our time, I would never have thought it much of a problem; just reminding people that they need to maintain pace, or that they just took 25 minutes to finish a hole can be a wake up call when they are playing a casual round.

[WWBDD]

Quote:

Is there really that much of a difference between the tees?

If it's a reasonably well designed course, yes.

[Roblar]

Quote:

Somehow we need to get people to think of tee boxes like they do ski trail ratings.  Most sober poor to average skiers tend to avoid double black diamond ski trails

Sure.  Just have the marshals break someone's leg if they score worse than bogey from the tips.

As for why people play from the tips when they shouldn't...

There is pressure to play from the tips.

When I started, I played from the senior tees.  I broke 80 and people said, "That doesn't count, that was from the senior tees." (And said that here on ST too.)

So there is an attitude that unless you're playing from the tips, you're not 'really' playing.  It might be ego too -- but 'peer pressure' is certainly a factor too.

Personally, after I broke 80 from the whites again, I moved to the blues -- broke 80 and moved to the tips.  But when I play a new course, I'll play either the 'senior' or the 'mens' tees -- not the tips.)

I agree with people that the starting point is not the real problem with slow play -- it's all the other faffing around on the course.   I walk, and I particularly hate watching a twosome in a cart drive over to player 1's ball, hit, then both get back in the cart and drive over to player 2's ball and hit, and...

[zipazoid]

Trust me guys. When you get to a certain age, you'll want to move up. I'm 53 and when I play with my buds there's no machismo going on. We just wanna have fun.

[Kobey]

There is a resort downstate from me that has a PGA course and with some of the deals they have I plan on going there when I get a bit better.  When I do, I might just play from the tips to see what my score would be compared to pros.  But I would only do it if I was there on a day when no one was waiting behind me and I was playing alone.

[joekelly]

Where i live, Asia, there is  tremendous competition for the Tee time as the number of courses cannot serve the huge number of players.  But labor is cheap, so we see many Course Marshalls pushing players along in order to keep the last group of the day within daylight. In USA i have never seen this pressure as the number of courses near the urban centers is generally adequate.  Here we are expected to play the 18 holes  in 4hrs and 18 mins, no exceptions or excuses and the Marshalls will be timing us along the way.  I see the opportunity for some computerized device at each tee box where  any player of the group can flash a GroupTeeCard onto a reader and read the real time  result of speed of play.  Then the group can compare the real time against the desired time.  If going too slowly then the group can  decide to pick up the pace.  Also helps that the Stableford competition is played here which limits the number of strokes per hole to 8, which frequently means 'pick the ball up and walk to the next tee box'.  That really speeds the game up!!

[WWBDD]

Originally Posted by Kobey

I might just play from the tips to see what my score would be compared to pros.

You won't have the grown out rough and nasty pin placements, so you still won't be playing the same course as the pros. Plus there will probably be some boxes set back from the tips that are only used for PGA events ... you won't be able to play those either.

[Kobey]

Originally Posted by WWBDD

You won't have the grown out rough and nasty pin placements, so you still won't be playing the same course as the pros. Plus there will probably be some boxes set back from the tips that are only used for PGA events ... you won't be able to play those either.

Yeah, but at least I'll get to play a longer course than I normally do.  I've never played one over 7,000 yards before.

[zipazoid]

It's not fun. Plan on hitting driver-3 wood a lot...and still be short of the green on the par 4's. I bet you move up by the time you get to the back nine.

But hey, go for it.

My optimal distance is about 6,500 yards - 360 to 425-yard par 4's, par 3's under 200. Don't care how long the par 5s are - I need 3 to get home anyway.

[snofrog]

to be honest I realize no matter what I do , some people are just slow and I refuse to let them affect my game . from the same token I realize there are people that look for any reason to bitch and feel self important . thankfully I dont golf with either