R11 irons or CB

[jburns2627]

I think a lot of people forget, there are game improving clubs and tour clubs.  Game improving clubs are normally cast clubs while tour clubs are forged.  I see higher handicappers using forged irons (MB) shooting in the 80s where a game improving club could shave 5-10 strokes off there game.  So the big question when comparing clubs, what type of player I'm I; being honest or accepting your game skill level.   I would say somewhere around 10 handicap or above you need a game improving club, unless your short game stinks which runs up your index.  Butt.... I want to play what the Pros play is the biggest mistake most golfers make.  I do recommend for a little better players to use forged wedges including your PW.  So... my handicap is around a 2 but normally moves up during the winter a bit.  I do like the combo sets for the single handicap digit guys.  OK... back to the R11.  I tried this set out, I found they were easy to control, long, and little vibration but they are also about 2 degrees strong. (Example: I normally hit a 6 iron about 175-180 yards but the r-11s were about 190-195. straight out. fades took off about 15 yards and no noticeable difference with draws except maybe a few yards with roll out.Wow inverted cone technology works) I like the looks and feel; the KBS reg shaft worked fine even though I normally use a stiff shaft. However KBS tips are a bit stiffer.  R11 top line and face is a bit larger then the CBs but it is a game improving club for more surface area and worked well for off center hits.  I heard some pros degrading the club at testing, but they are pros, and of course they are not going to like the feel and playability of cast as compared to their prefer forged.  So bash away pros.  I recommend the r11 irons.

[iacas]

  jburns2627 said:

Originally Posted by jburns2627

I see higher handicappers using forged irons (MB) shooting in the 80s where a game improving club could shave 5-10 strokes off there game.

Uhm, in a word, "no."

[moparman426]

I blame the education system.

[MbolicGolf]

  jburns2627 said:

Originally Posted by jburns2627

I think a lot of people forget, there are game improving clubs and tour clubs.  Game improving clubs are normally cast clubs while tour clubs are forged.  I see higher handicappers using forged irons (MB) shooting in the 80s where a game improving club could shave 5-10 strokes off there game.  So the big question when comparing clubs, what type of player I'm I; being honest or accepting your game skill level.   I would say somewhere around 10 handicap or above you need a game improving club, unless your short game stinks which runs up your index.  Butt.... I want to play what the Pros play is the biggest mistake most golfers make.  I do recommend for a little better players to use forged wedges including your PW.  So... my handicap is around a 2 but normally moves up during the winter a bit.  I do like the combo sets for the single handicap digit guys.  OK... back to the R11.  I tried this set out, I found they were easy to control, long, and little vibration but they are also about 2 degrees strong. (Example: I normally hit a 6 iron about 175-180 yards but the r-11s were about 190-195. straight out. fades took off about 15 yards and no noticeable difference with draws except maybe a few yards with roll out.Wow inverted cone technology works) I like the looks and feel; the KBS reg shaft worked fine even though I normally use a stiff shaft. However KBS tips are a bit stiffer.  R11 top line and face is a bit larger then the CBs but it is a game improving club for more surface area and worked well for off center hits.  I heard some pros degrading the club at testing, but they are pros, and of course they are not going to like the feel and playability of cast as compared to their prefer forged.  So bash away pros.  I recommend the r11 irons.

How many strokes would clubs made out of Starmetal shave off your game? Do you know what kind of distance increase I would get out of a shaft made of spiders silk and the hair of a bedoin tribes woman that has been grown since she was born?

[jburns2627]

If I was looking to shave a few strokes I would get a great set of irons and not some cheap low cost trash set u picked up for 100.00 bucks on ebay.

[vanpooten]

Paragraphs are always nice. Were you looking to actually talk about R11 irons vs CB irons or did you just want to rant and continue spreading misinformation?

[jburns2627]

so.. what would you like to know?  Maybe I can help you, or not.  Objective opinion mostly not misinformation.  Been teaching, playing, and testing golf equipment for 30 years.

[k-troop]

Welcome to the forum.  Come on in and pretend that you own the place, the game of golf, and all knowledge associated with it.  Just don't pretend that you own a third-grader's grasp of the English language.  I may have been born at night....

[jburns2627]

speaking in generalities,  most higher handicap players could easily shave strokes by getting a club fitted to their game but too many pros influence the average golfer to purchase outside their skill level.  So instead of missing greens long or short because of inconsistently hitting the ball all over the club face with forged irons; cavity backs allow for some forgiveness on those shots.  This builds confidence which co insides with better shots and lower scores.  The R11 was fantastic replacement for the CBs and a great match for mid to higher handicappers, just looking over the club  builds confidence for a great shot.  We still have TM tour clubs, but using forged blades is part of the old era and technology has moved forward.  GET  OVER IT..The modified forged, single digit handicap guys ex: titleist AP2 or CBs are great clubs but very pricey.  Explain that one to your wife.   Take the R11 for what it is mid price game improving club without this huge oversize & thick line head.

[newtogolf]

So is it your contention that the material of the iron (cast versus forged) and not the design (CB vs MC vs Blade) is the deciding factor for whether a high handicapper should play a particular iron?

  jburns2627 said:

Originally Posted by jburns2627

speaking in generalities,  most higher handicap players could easily shave strokes by getting a club fitted to their game but too many pros influence the average golfer to purchase outside their skill level.  So instead of missing greens long or short because of inconsistently hitting the ball all over the club face with forged irons; cavity backs allow for some forgiveness on those shots.  This builds confidence which co insides with better shots and lower scores.  The R11 was fantastic replacement for the CBs and a great match for mid to higher handicappers, just looking over the club  builds confidence for a great shot.  We still have TM tour clubs, but using forged blades is part of the old era and technology has moved forward.  GET  OVER IT..The modified forged, single digit handicap guys ex: titleist AP2 or CBs are great clubs but very pricey.  Explain that one to your wife.   Take the R11 for what it is mid price game improving club without this huge oversize & thick line head.

[moparman426]

My irons are both cavity back and forged.........but how can that be?

Also, I don't have to explain anything to my wife......I just do a lot of apologizing after the fact

[MiniBlueDragon]

If you've been teaching, playing and testing golf equipment for 30 years then why is it that you're saying a specific club will help everybody in a certain handicap bracket? Surely you understand that the shaft is the main driving point of the swing, not the head and certainly not 'any R11' (to paraphrase)

I don't think the golf swing can be generalised, whether it's based on handicap or not. I'm a high handicap golfer but that handicap is born of the fact that I spent more time working on my swing or playing with family than playing handicap-contributing rounds and my short game is appalling because I don't practice it. My swing though is generally pretty good.

I currently play cavity backs because people (like you) told me I should. "It will help you". "It will save you strokes". "You will thank me in the long run" etc.

I tried a set of Mizzy MP59's a few weeks back and instantly was hitting the ball straighter, cleaner and longer than normal. My dispersion tightened and my distances became more regular than with my CB's. I even managed to easily shape the ball with lovely soft draws and soft fades that dropped out of the sky dead straight to the target. The feeling off the face was amazing and the look at address was confidence-inspiring. Since then I've gone for a fitting with Mizuno where the two "good" options were MP53's and MP-59's with S300 shaft and I'm ready to pull the trigger on a set to replace my 8-month-old Yonex VMS irons.

Listening to other people's opinions on what I should or shouldn't play costs money. My personal recommendation to others is to go and get fit for irons, not to listen to some random on the internet telling you that a specific make and model of club will turn you into your club champion. To some cast may be the best option, to others forged. To some blades may be the best option, to others muscle or cavity backs. There is no universal one-size-fits all in this game. You should know that after 30 years.

[jburns2627]

That sounds great, glad you found the right club for you.  In college I had a friend that loved his.  That is why we have alot of choices and brands.  Generally speaking higher handicappers do better with cavity backs but in rare cases like you, blades did work fine.  Normally the smash number is higher with cavity backs for higher handicaps but for purer swings the forge irons outdo cavity backs.  Some swings generate alot of ball spin which can hurt distance, so cavity backs seem to generate more, which gives you a better launch angle or gets the ball up.  So by not putting you on a machine couldn't tell you why.  Normally, I've seen more guys balloon golf balls with cavity backs then forged.  But in other words irons are fitted personally and I agree.  Sometimes its just a ball adjustment.  PGA tour shops gives you a large variety of clubs and fittings.    I stick to my statement higher handicappers do better with cavity backs with you being an exception.  Now The r11 cavity back is a great club but generates alot of spin this would not be a club for you.  So no need to try them. The MB would be a better fit.  sorry for your misfortune

[moparman426]

Your opinions might be a little more credible if you stop associating forged with non-cavity backed clubs.  Forged is the process in which the club head is formed.  A forged club is hammered though dies to get it's initial form, it doesn't matter if it's a blade or a cavity back .  A cast club (poured into a mold) can also be a blade or cavity back.

[jburns2627]

The golf shaft lots to talk about but generally speaking its the kick point for your golf swing. Sure you can pure shafts use steel graphic or bimetal. This mostly depends on launch angle.  High kick point sends the ball low, mid is middle, low sends the ball high. Some shafts have more snap then others.  Tip of the shaft stiff, firm, soft.  normally the firmer the tip the less torque. So you might hear butt trim or tip trim.  Normally most clubs are but trim to fit but tips can be cut to firm them up.  The big trick in shafts is a good release with your swing speed that carries with consistancy.

[Ernest Jones]

This is all pretty irrellevant if you don't have the Holy Golf Spirit at your side....

http://thesandtrap.com/t/55537/swing-coach-calling-out-haney-and-leadbetter/18#post_677676

[moparman426]

Crack kills.

That is all.

[jburns2627]

Most CB irons are forged but there are some that are like an hybrid.  In other words the frame of the club is forged with a face insert.  or the cub is forged with a box cavity back alittle pricey but great clubs.  Cast put Ping on the map.  Cast is more forgiving not only for mishits but the sting in the hands is less.  Well the older I get the worse the sting gets. I hate mis hits.