Who has had the greatest Impact on golf?

[Madriver]

found these interesting iacas...

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/golf/...6-palmer_x.htm

http://money.cnn.com/2001/06/15/companies/tiger/

http://www.golftoday.co.uk/news/year...news04/tv.html


...the article with Arnie is a great insight into your argument for Arnie. As for TV, I'll stand by my assertions...

...worldwide impact...
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/golf/...8-impact_x.htm

[iacas]

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/golf/...6-palmer_x.htm

Summary: "tournament directors want Tiger Woods in the field of their tournaments."

http://money.cnn.com/2001/06/15/companies/tiger/

Summary: his impact on ratings peaked and is in a gentle decline.

http://www.golftoday.co.uk/news/year...news04/tv.html

Summary: more people watch when Tiger Woods is in the hunt than when he's not.

All three of the above miss obvious points, I think. The first is a "duh" statement, as are the other two. But none of them really speak to the increases you claimed existed (which, according to the NGF, do not in fact exist).

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/golf/...8-impact_x.htm

Summary: Tiger is great.

The problem all of these articles have is that they're comparing the early 1990s - when golf was popular only with hard-core golf fans - with now, when golf is popular with even casual golf fans. Arnold Palmer took something that wasn't even very popular with hard-core golf fans (watching the PGA Tour, caring about The Masters, etc.) and made it something that NON-golf fans cared about. Sorry, but it's still not even close to me.

[Madriver]

Summary: "tournament directors want Tiger Woods in the field of their tournaments."

...why?

Summary: his impact on ratings peaked and is in a gentle decline.

...summary of article ...Tiger pushed ratings beyond what they ever were...now you are seeing the decline...

Summary: more people watch when Tiger Woods is in the hunt than when he's not.

...summary....Tiger has the most impact on the game...thats why people watch or tune out... Love MaD

[iacas]

...summary of article ...Tiger pushed ratings beyond what they ever were...now you are seeing the decline...

Uhm, more people have TVs now than used to? More tournaments are covered?

You're missing the point: Arnold Palmer brought golf to the masses. Tiger's impact (preaching) has largely been limited to the choir.

...summary....Tiger has the most impact on the game...thats why people watch or tune out...

He has the most impact NOW. Right now, he's the highest impact player. Unfortunately, that's not the question being asked, is it?

Drop it, because you ain't gonna convince me. Tiger doesn't pass the mom test. My mom knew who Arnold Palmer was and what he accomplished. My wife hasn't got a clue how many majors or tournaments Tiger's won or the last time he won The Masters.

[tartanjack]

This thread is very sad for me. I started playing golf before Palmer. For me, the idol was Hogan. And that only because I wasn't alive for Byron Nelson's career. I've watched and played and written about this game for nearly half a century.

So here's what I think: Those here who acknowledge Arnold Palmer are right on the money. Whomever made up this poll is so ignorant or misinformed or, worse yet, young and unknowning, that I can't bear to vote. How could one possibly leave off the correct answer?

Prior to Arnold, golf was a game of the country club. People like my father learned and fell in love with the game as a caddie. Otherwise, it was rich people hacking around a private preserve.

Arnold Palmer changed that. He made golf a game for the masses (including each of you who think Tiger is the answer). Anybody reading this site ultimately owes their interest to Arnold Palmer whether they know it or not.

It's really pitiful (that's why I said I was sad) to think some think Tiger has had a greater impact. Like Jack he is reaping what Arnold sowed. We are ten years into Tiger's professional career. He remains the only African American on Tour. There's only one African American on the Nationwide Tour. There is no indication more are on the horizon. The only impact he has made is on his bank account, Nike's bottom line, and PGA Tour purses.

If you've started playing golf because of Tiger Woods I urge you to quit and take up sailing, fishing, kayaking or beer drinking. Believe me, you'll have more fun. Because you don't get it.

Arnold was not just a great golfer in his time. He was of the people, for the people and loved by the people. He made televison revenue possible and the rest is history. Without Arnold, Earl Woods would never, ever have led his kid into golf.

Tiger is certainly a better player than Arnold was. But Arnold is the better golfer. And it is Arnold who deserves the credit for all the courses and equipment and purse money we see today.

Look... I admire Tiger's skills. Unbelievable. Best ever. But there is no way he has impacted the game like Arnold Palmer. And that's really, really, too bad. Because he's had a chance to.

[royalwulff]

I would have to agree with Tartanjack on this one. Arnold is the greatest influence on the game ever. I grew up watching Jack with my father but it was Arnold that got my attention. Secondly how many of us and todays pros would be playing this great game today without Arnold and his army leading the world onto the golf course. I will say that all the greats Bobby, Jack, Tiger, Gene, Lee, and all the rest have added there onw flair and touch to the impact on golf but day in and day out it would have to be the KING.

[MGP]

Really well said Jack and I agree 100%.

If you ever saw the movie "Bobby Jones: Stroke of Genius", there's a great line by O.B. Keeler (Malcolm McDowell) in the movie, actually a great scene I think that sums it all up. Bobby Jones is being goaded by a newspaper reporter about when he's going to "cash in" and turn pro. O.B. Keeler decks him with a roundhouse punch and mutters "Money, it's going to ruin sports..."

I think that's the biggest difference between today's generation and some of us older guys and why we have a different perspective on things. We saw the game before it was the big megacorporation, megamedia, zillion dollar glamor and glitz TV business it is today. All the guys you mentioned played the game because they loved it and happened to be able to make a living doing it.

I guess that gets back to why I'm not such a big fan of courses like TPC Sawgrass. Yeah they are exciting and glitzy and you know there will be the train wrecks that TV loves. I remember when they were building it, I thought it was kind of an interesting and novel concept. Now they've got all kinds of "gimmicky" target courses all over the place because they are manufactured for TV, it's ratings and the big bucks.

Me, I'll take the old tradional courses and players that played the game primarily because they were competitors and they loved it. I love the British Open because it's still played on courses and in a manner very close to how the game began.

[mstuk]

What about Harry Vardon ? Tiger uses his grip , golf was a tiny sport in the usa until his touring there.

what about Walter Hagen almost single handedly created the professional touring pro , helped remove class boundaries and made the american public want to play .

[Madriver]

So here's what I think: Those here who acknowledge Arnold Palmer are right on the money. Whomever made up this poll is so ignorant or misinformed or, worse yet, young and unknowning, that I can't bear to vote. How could one possibly leave off the correct answer?

....you are a tool....read the thread...I tried to edit it. Also...luckily I included "other". Iacas has deleted one of my posts already...but will not allow me to edit the poll....thanks pal...It's an opinion not an absolute...for all you Arnie fans....have at it. Iacas...if someone debates you try not and delete or edit post that do so...it's really lame....

[allin]

What about Harry Vardon ? Tiger uses his grip , golf was a tiny sport in the usa until his touring there.

I appreciate your point. Many golfers have made great contributions, Francis Quimet, (not sure of spelling), for one. Mine was the first Arnold Palmer post. Impact on the game is based timing not just the value of the golfers performance. Palmers influence was greater because he came along at a time when it was possible to have a great impact. You can't be a great general if there is no great war. Jackie Robinsons impact on baseball and the world in general wouldn't have been possible 20 years earlier. If Tiger had come along 30 years sooner his impact would probably be greater.

[Q.Q.Quillume]

....you are a tool....read the thread...I tried to edit it. Also...luckily I included "other". Iacas has deleted one of my posts already...but will not allow me to edit the poll....thanks pal...It's an opinion not an absolute...for all you Arnie fans....have at it. Iacas...if someone debates you try not and delete or edit post that do so...it's really lame....

Arnold Palmer = Other?

Give me a break . . .

[MilnerJ]

palmer, no doubt

[Juancd75]

Except that TV ratings and participation have been incredibly flat since about 1995. No more people are really playing golf these days than 12 years ago - pre-Tiger - according to the NGF.

So are you saying that because no inner city black kid has made it, tiger hasnt made an impact?? Because its a white dominated sport, that Plamer was more influential? He has made an impact on people, equipment, AND the game. at the course i dont see anyone wearing palmer hats, but you sure as hell see alot of Nike and Tiger hats.

[Juancd75]

To touch on a point that has me rather troubled, inner city kids are not just black. Don't know why you brought up the race card but they are white as well as hispanic. And for you to say there are no success stories since no inner city kid has made it to the pga tour (except for Tiger and Vijay both of which are part black as you put it) is an insult. My sons instructor at that "little" first tee clinic as you put it, is from the inner city. He is a scratch golfer and while he is not a pga tour golfer, he is INDEED a SUCCESS as he has achieved a level of play some of us can only drean of. All while giving back to the community and allowing kids from the inner city as well as from the burbs to participate in this great game we all love. And like him I am sure there are many more black, hispanic and white kids from the inner city that are as "succesful" as him and quite possibly influenced by Tiger.
Mr. Iacas, as per your own article on why there are no blacks on the pga tour, it's not because Tiger has not been a great influence but rather as you article states (great article btw):

http://thesandtrap.com/extras/swing_...erican_on_tour

"A high percentage of African-Americans in this country live in the inner cities. Regardless of race, it's difficult to get to a golf course from the Bronx - far more difficult than it is to find a basketball hoop. Inner city high schools are far less likely to have golf teams. Outreach programs, Tiger's efforts, and the First Tee are noble efforts, but the simple fact remains: golf requires a lot of space, and space isn't something you're likely to find in the inner cities of America." And Tiger still manages to influence those inner city kids in spite of all those difficulties onner city familes face. Even if those inner city kids dont play golf as long as or at the level that Mr. Palmer played, Tiger has influenced some of them enough to get them off the streets even if it is for a while.

Sports star Michael Jordan says: Tiger... will succeed and expand across all racial barriers.... I admire him... for establishing a new plateau, a higher ground, if you will.... I really do believe he was put here for a bigger reason than just to play golf. I don't think that he is a god, but I do believe that he was sent by One."

Even a panel at Duke University is to Examine Tiger Woods' Cultural Impact:

http://www.dukenews.duke.edu/2007/03/tiger.html

From his workouts and his nutrition, he has even changed that aspect of the game. I dont see anyone mimicking Arnold Palmers workouts. Yet everyone on tour has taken up working out. Even Phil and Vijay.

Thats INFLUENCE!

[Ogg]

No one does Arnold Palmer workouts since he is an old man. Erik is so dead on. Arnie brought golf to the masses and there is a simple reason why Arnold has had the most impact, because he knew it was about the fans. Arnold's advice to other golfers when asked "How many autographs do I have to sign?" "All of them" was his response. I wonder how many people can say that they followed that advice. I know Tiger certainly hasn't. The fact that Arnold still rakes in huge amounts of cash in endorsement money speaks volumes about his profile and influence.

There should be more golfers like Arnold Palmer on the PGA Tour today.

[Juancd75]

No one does Arnold Palmer workouts since he is an old man. Erik is so dead on. Arnie brought golf to the masses and there is a simple reason why Arnold has had the most impact, because he knew it was about the fans. Arnold's advice to other golfers when asked "How many autographs do I have to sign?" "All of them" was his response. I wonder how many people can say that they followed that advice. I know Tiger certainly hasn't. The fact that Arnold still rakes in huge amounts of cash in endorsement money speaks volumes about his profile and influence.

I agree that he is in a league of his own when it comes to class. Im not arguing that. But class is not the only determining factor when it comes to being categorized as the most influential person in the history of the game.

[iacas]

....you are a tool....read the thread...I tried to edit it. Also...luckily I included "other". Iacas has deleted one of my posts already...but will not allow me to edit the poll....thanks pal...It's an opinion not an absolute...for all you Arnie fans....have at it. Iacas...if someone debates you try not and delete or edit post that do so...it's really lame....

I've not deleted any of your posts, and it's not me preventing you from editing the poll. Regular users are simply not allowed to edit polls after they've been voted on - why would you? How many votes would you assign as "Other" to the new "Arnold Palmer" choice?

Finally, you don't get to call anyone here, least of all one of MY staff, a "tool."

So are you saying that because no inner city black kid has made it, tiger hasnt made an impact??

No, I'm saying that it's part of the proof that Tiger's impact is orders of magnitude less than Arnold's. Arnold - as Jack pointed out - got everyone involved in the game, even non-golfers who then took up the game, the blue-collar workers who previously thought golf was a game for snobs.

at the course i dont see anyone wearing palmer hats, but you sure as hell see alot of Nike and Tiger hats.

The numbers don't lie - Tiger's presence hasn't led to an increase in the number of people playing golf.

I have a Nike hat too, but I was playing golf before I ever heard of Tiger Woods. So too were lots of those wearing Tiger hats.

And Tiger still manages to influence those inner city kids in spite of all those difficulties onner city familes face. Even if those inner city kids dont play golf as long as or at the level that Mr. Palmer played, Tiger has influenced some of them enough to get them off the streets even if it is for a while.

The question remains "who has had the greatest impact on golf." If those inner-city kids are being saved but not growing up to be golfers, then that's not going to impact GOLF much.

From his workouts and his nutrition, he has even changed that aspect of the game. I dont see anyone mimicking Arnold Palmers workouts. Yet everyone on tour has taken up working out. Even Phil and Vijay.

Competitors compete. You're vastly underestimating the reach Arnold Palmer had beyond his peers and into the general public, yet still related to golf. Millions of people took up the game (each year for several years) largely because of Arnold Palmer - the same cannot be said (provably) about Tiger Woods.

And finally, a bit of a non-factual point: Tiger has plenty of haters, but good luck finding someone who dislikes Arnold Palmer.

No one does Arnold Palmer workouts since he is an old man. Erik is so dead on. Arnie brought golf to the masses and there is a simple reason why Arnold has had the most impact, because he knew it was about the fans. Arnold's advice to other golfers when asked "How many autographs do I have to sign?" "All of them" was his response. I wonder how many people can say that they followed that advice. I know Tiger certainly hasn't. The fact that Arnold still rakes in huge amounts of cash in endorsement money speaks volumes about his profile and influence.

Ditto. And on autographs, Arnold still signs them

legibly . His autograph is virtually worthless on eBay because he's signed so many things over the years.

[Juancd75]

Being hated means nothing! Muhammad Ali had and still has haters, but it doesnt take away from him being being the most influential athlete in history. Bill Gates has haters and i think he has got a little (but just a little) influence in the world.

Nike Golf offers products head-to-toe and revenues have doubled since 1996, according to a company spokesman. Sales topped $600 million for the fiscal year ending May 31, making Nike the sport's fourth-largest equipment company, trailing only Acushnet, Callaway and TaylorMade-Adidas.
with those types of numbers, I doubt its the haters that are buying ALL THAT TIGER WOODS GEAR. MAybe he does have some fans after all.

And with regards to no one doing Palmers workout because he is old. What about when he was in his prime? No one performed his workout routine because he never had one. no one did. Tiger implemented a workout routine and nutrition program that every pro and amatuer alike would love to get their hands on. another element he brought to the game