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mosnas

What can you tell me about forged irons?

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I posted a thread earlier asking about a few different types of golf clubs.  After doing some research looking and hitting some clubs Ive taken a look at forged irons.  Being a mid to high handicapper (shoot mid to high 80s on a good day) i havent really considered these types of clubs before.  The only experience i have with forged clubs are my wedges and i absolutely love them mostly for the thin topline and thin souls.  So I was wondering if under any circumstances you would recommend forged irons to someone who isnt a low handicapper.

Also iron striking has never been a big problem for me the problem i have with my current irons is the topline and souls are way to wide and make it difficult to take divots out and hit my natural shot.

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Forging is a manufacturing process.

It has nothing at all to do with the performance of the clubs .

They can be bent easily because the steel is softer than that used in cast clubs.

Whether the clubs have thin or thick toplines or wide or narrow soles has nothing to do with them being forged or cast.

Game improvement clubs ar more likely to be cast, but forged clubs don't "feel" different or better than similar designs which are cast.

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Originally Posted by Shorty

Forging is a manufacturing process.

It has nothing at all to do with the performance of the clubs.

They can be bent easily because the steel is softer than that used in cast clubs.

Whether the clubs have thin or thick toplines or wide or narrow soles has nothing to do with them being forged or cast.

Game improvemnet clubs ar more like ly to be cast, but forged clubs don't "feel" different or better than similar designs which are cast.


This.

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Originally Posted by Shorty

Forging is a manufacturing process.

It has nothing at all to do with the performance of the clubs.

They can be bent easily because the steel is softer than that used in cast clubs.

Whether the clubs have thin or thick toplines or wide or narrow soles has nothing to do with them being forged or cast.

Game improvemnet clubs ar more like ly to be cast, but forged clubs don't "feel" different or better than similar designs which are cast.



Well usually I see the forged clubs under the players irons and was just wondering what kind of hitting characteristics separate them from cast irons and cavity backs.  And I know forged irons don't have to be thin but for the most part of the ones i looked at the forged irons were much thinner than say a razr x or similar irons.

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Originally Posted by mosnas

Well usually I see the forged clubs under the players irons and was just wondering what kind of hitting characteristics separate them from cast irons and cavity backs.  And I know forged irons don't have to be thin but for the most part of the ones i looked at the forged irons were much thinner than say a razr x or similar irons.


Like Shorty said, forging is just how the club is built.  Nothing "separates" them from cavity backs because many cavity backs are forged.  Are you meaning to ask about "blades" or "musclebacks" versus cavity backs or game improvement?  I am also in the market for new clubs and would definitely consider all types ... and the consensus on here that I've read seems to be (again, like Shorty said) that there is no difference in feel between forged and cast clubs.

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Forged clubs "feel" softer at impact and are often preferred for that kind of feedback. You know when you hit it dead center and when you don't.

You can play blades (like pros), cavity backs (like many pros and amatuers), game improvement irons (which are usually cast with the exception of Ping Anser irons that are forged and have heel, toe, and sole weighting), or ultra-game improvement irons (which have a higher moi and more perimeter weighting).

If you can shoot in the mid 80's you don't have to worry about trying higher quality irons that require better ball contact.

Go to a big golf store - tell them you want to try out some of their forged players irons - and enjoy!

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Originally Posted by Old1964

Forged clubs "feel" softer at impact and are often preferred for that kind of feedback. You know when you hit it dead center and when you don't.

ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE. THIS IS WRONG!!!

When are people going to stop trotting this nonsense out?

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Buying a forged club is not a magic pill.  I have had several sets. None of them are really all that remarkable or stand out except for one very important factor. The steel they are made from can be bent!  I can not emphasize this enough. They allow you to alter the club to fit you if you do not coincidentally fit the club.  My journey has been a rough and frustrating road. I am tall and all the charts say I should use 4 degrees upright lie. Of course I follow the advise and bend them up.  My game still sucked. After 20 years of field trials I have learned to use 6 degrees flat. Yes 6 DEGREES FLAT and I'm 6"4" tall. Many years ago I made a clone of the pro bending machines and bend them my self.  I won't bend anything but forged soft steel irons anymore. I have tried to bend stainless and broke them etc.

You asked "So I was wondering if under any circumstances you would recommend forged irons to someone who isn't a low handicapper."

I say under every circumstance everyone who does not magically fit the off the shelf golf club (which is just about every one) should use forged clubs. They can be tweaked (bent) to fit that particular golfer.

I am going to take a bit of a shot at the manufactures:  They come out with all these gimmicks to convince the buyer that that gimmick will be the magic pill that takes their game to the mountain top.  What will improve their game is the adjustment for:

1) Weight so as not to feel like a fly swatter (mine is 2 ounces of lead heavier)

2) The correct length to produce a not too steep swing plane (mine is plus 3")

3) AND THE CORRECT LIE TO MATCH THE LENGTH (mine is 6 degrees flat) This is the value of a forged mild steel club head. They can ALSO be tweaked (bend loft) to get an odd fellow to fall evenly spaced for distance with the rest of the set.

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A related question for forged iron players ... Because they are softer steel, what kind of life span do they have?  I've had my clubs (cast DCI 981) since 1998 and they show very little wear.  I imagine that would not be the same for the soft forged clubs.

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They will wear off the chrome on the impact zone and it will  be visually obvious.  They will get nicks from rocks. My attitude is that I don't care. I will play with very ugly things that work rather than beautiful things that don't. Aside from appearance their life span will exceed you and you kids and even their kids. Just look at the Goodwill stores.

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Over time, the softer forgings will develop some wear through the grooves, especially if you consistently hit the exact same spot on the face.  My last set of clubs was a set of Mizuno MX-25's that were hand-me-downs from a friend who was a very good golfer, and they were noticeably worn in the sweet spot from repeated contact.  They also rusted right there because there was no more protective coating.

I have had my MP-57's for over 2 years now, and they have no noticeable wear on them, besides bag chatter.  I bought them when I was a 20 handicapper, and my iron game has dramatically improved from when I was playing the more user-friendly MX-25's.  I would say if you're shooting mid-80's consistently, you can play a thinner topline cavity back with some forgiveness built in easily like the MP-52, 57, 58.  Just standing over the small cavity back that has been bent perfectly for my swing gives me a lot more confidence.

I don't know about "feel", because I've always played forged clubs, but there is a distinctive sound difference between a soft forging and a cast club.

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Originally Posted by Shorty

ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE. THIS IS WRONG!!!

When are people going to stop trotting this nonsense out?


Actually, it is true.  Thats why the majority of the irons used on tour are forged and why so many companies are now offering forged wedge options.  If cast were the same, they wouldnt spend more money manufacturing forged clubs.

People can make the claims all they want that cast and forged is the same but all a person has to do is considering the differences between the 2 manufacturing processes to realize that forging a club changes it at a molecular level.  You dont need a degree in engineering to see what that would make a difference in feel.

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Originally Posted by mosnas

I posted a thread earlier asking about a few different types of golf clubs.  After doing some research looking and hitting some clubs Ive taken a look at forged irons.  Being a mid to high handicapper (shoot mid to high 80s on a good day) i havent really considered these types of clubs before.  The only experience i have with forged clubs are my wedges and i absolutely love them mostly for the thin topline and thin souls.  So I was wondering if under any circumstances you would recommend forged irons to someone who isnt a low handicapper.

Also iron striking has never been a big problem for me the problem i have with my current irons is the topline and souls are way to wide and make it difficult to take divots out and hit my natural shot.


The feel is amazing, but you do lose distance compared to your harder cast irons..which makes sense..the metal is softer compared to something that is harder.  Once you start nailing your shots consistently I'd definitely make the switch.  They do get banged up "chatter"..but that's the norm with forged irons.

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Originally Posted by TitleistWI

Actually, it is true.  Thats why the majority of the irons used on tour are forged and why so many companies are now offering forged wedge options.  If cast were the same, they wouldnt spend more money manufacturing forged clubs.

People can make the claims all they want that cast and forged is the same but all a person has to do is considering the differences between the 2 manufacturing processes to realize that forging a club changes it at a molecular level.  You dont need a degree in engineering to see what that would make a difference in feel.

Originally Posted by Shorty

Forging is a manufacturing process.

It has nothing at all to do with the performance of the clubs.

They can be bent easily because the steel is softer than that used in cast clubs.

Whether the clubs have thin or thick toplines or wide or narrow soles has nothing to do with them being forged or cast.

Game improvement clubs ar more likely to be cast, but forged clubs don't "feel" different or better than similar designs which are cast.


You are kidding right..Mizuno's grain forged irons feel nothing like a standard cast.

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Check this out! http://golf.about.com/od/faqs/f/cast_forged.htm

Quote:

Forging involves literally pounding or compressing the metal, in its solid form, from which the ironhead is made into the designed shape of the ironhead, after which a number of other machining and drilling steps are necessary to complete the production of the ironhead.

If you have a cast iron and a forged iron of exactly the same shape and weight distribution design, the same loft, the same center of gravity position in the two heads, and the heads are built with the same shaft, same length, same grip and same swingweight / MOI , hitting the same ball, the shots will fly identical distances and 99-percent of all golfers will never know which was forged and which was cast.

Most of the remaining 1-percent want to believe that the forged iron would be softer in feel because the carbon steel of a typical forging is a softer metal, but scientific research has shown that the hardness difference in a metal alone is not enough to create a difference in impact feel. All of the other factors listed above are the reason for differences in the feel of shots hit with one club vs. another.

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Originally Posted by Maverick

You are kidding right..Mizuno's grain forged irons feel nothing like a standard cast.



I think he's serious and I'd have to agree with him but to be clear I was one of forged devotees who thought forged had better "feel". Last year I dropped my MP57s for my S57s and I can't tell the difference one bit both feel amazing when struck well, both feel bad when struck poorly.

Mizuno puts some marketing behind the whole forged "feels" better and a lot of people buy it. It's not to TMs level of promoting distance but they have definitely started a trend for people demanding the "feel" of forged. Mizuno has done studies to show that forged has better "feel" but there's also been studies where people hit unmarked irons some forged, some cast and not one of the could tell the difference. I've also seen threads of people wanting a forged iron so they can work the ball more but again it doesn't matter it does show that forged has gained a reputation for being superior.

At the end of the day playing a forged iron or cast iron makes no difference but if one or the other gives you more confidence that's all that matters.

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Originally Posted by Maverick

You are kidding right..Mizuno's grain forged irons feel nothing like a standard cast.

You are a victim of Mizuno's slick advertising, my friend.

Mizuno's forged irons might well feel different from a "standard cast" iron. I agree.  ButiIt is because of their design, not because of the way they were made.

What state do you think their billets were in before they were made into rods? Molten.

You can say as many times as you like that forged feels better than cast.

The fact of the matter is that it doesn't. You are unequivocally incorrect.


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