Best Sandbagger Story!

[caniac6]

Originally Posted by turtleback

How is he cheating by turning in that score?  Or did you mean to say that he said he WASN'T turning in that score.  If that is the case you made a very unfortunate and misleading typo.

In an earlier post, I told a story about a guy with a 19 hdcp. that shot a 78 in a tournament, and said he wasn't going to post his score.

[turtleback]

Quote:

Originally Posted by caniac6

In an earlier post, I told a story about a guy with a 19 hdcp. that shot a 78 in a tournament, and said he wasn't going to post his score.

No, what you wrote was:

Quote:

I played in a tourney with a guy that was an officer in the club. He shot a 78 with a 19 handicap. After the round, he proudly announce" I'm turning that one in". I am not a member at that club anymore.

Hence my comment questioning what you actually meant and mentioning an unfortunate typo.

BTW, if you did not tell the Handicap Chairman or a member of the Committee then you are as much of the problem as anyone.  Peer review means all the members are responsible for enforcement of the handicap rules.  It really is no different than playing in a stroke play event and allowing a fellow competitor to blatantly break rules to cheat and lower his score.  You have a responsibility to protect the field, and in handicap terms, you have a responsibility to protect the membership.  If the Committee knows or is made aware that he played and did not post then they have the authority to post the score for him if they can ascertain what he shot (which they could, because you knew).  Plus, since it was in a tournament they would easily be able to ascertain his score and post it for him.  But, to paraphrase Pogo, you have met the enemy and he is you.

[caniac6]

Originally Posted by turtleback

No, what you wrote was:

Hence my comment questioning what you actually meant and mentioning an unfortunate typo.

BTW, if you did not tell the Handicap Chairman or a member of the Committee then you are as much of the problem as anyone.  Peer review means all the members are responsible for enforcement of the handicap rules.  It really is no different than playing in a stroke play event and allowing a fellow competitor to blatantly break rules to cheat and lower his score.  You have a responsibility to protect the field, and in handicap terms, you have a responsibility to protect the membership.  If the Committee knows or is made aware that he played and did not post then they have the authority to post the score for him if they can ascertain what he shot (which they could, because you knew).  Plus, since it was in a tournament they would easily be able to ascertain his score and post it for him.  But, to paraphrase Pogo, you have met the enemy and he is you.

Sorry. I am not a very skilled typist. I meant to say that he said he was not going to post his score. This happened shortly after I joined this country club, and I was somewhat hesitant to make waves. That being said, if I had it to do over, I still wouldn't do anything. I think that going to the course should be a fun experience, and I wouldn't want to create a hostile enviornment by appointing myself the handicap police. I chose not to play in anymore club tournaments, and eventually joined another club. I record all my scores. I don't feel it is my responsibility to record other players scores. I go play to have fun, and if an adult needs to lie about his scores in order to make themself feel good,than i guess i feel sorry for them. I don't care what the prize is, I am not going to lie in order to win.

[MEfree]

Caniac6- did you confirm that he did in fact fail to turn in the score?  A guy proudly saying he is NOT going to turn in a good score is either a stupid cheater, in an environment where everyone cheats (maybe so the club can do better in inter club play) or is joking.

[caniac6]

I don't know what he did. I might be a little naieve, but his comment kind of suprised me. I don't think I am better than anyone else, but I would never consider cheating or even joke about cheating. I wouldn't even want to put the idea that I might cheat in someones mind. I just feel that being honest in life is about the most important thing. If someone would lie and cheat about something as unimportant as golf, I wouldn't trust them in anything.

[LeftyTrevor]

We've got a guy that's so bad last week at our member guest tourney when he won the first day money everyone booed. In front of all the wives and all. This guy is a 14 and plays to about a 4-5 when he wants. Would you even enjoy a win if you know it only came from cheating. Pretty sad if you ask me.

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by caniac6

I don't know what he did. I might be a little naieve, but his comment kind of suprised me. I don't think I am better than anyone else, but I would never consider cheating or even joke about cheating. I wouldn't even want to put the idea that I might cheat in someones mind. I just feel that being honest in life is about the most important thing. If someone would lie and cheat about something as unimportant as golf, I wouldn't trust them in anything.

But letting someone get away with cheating, whether on the course or in the handicap arena, when you have an affirmative obligation to protect the field or protect the membership is making yourself an accessory to his cheating.  You get the club you deserve.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by JerseyThursday

But if he is an a 19 handicap and turns in a 78 he might be someone who is improving and his handicap is going to go down accordingly.

[MEfree]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

Can you imagine what the other members will say if I do that?  I'm going to try not to let it affect me mentally, but I'm dreading the backlash if I play well.

I wouldn`t worry about it...handicaps are a lagging indicator of your play- nobody was complaining when you were playing over your handicap and it was rising, so they should understand that your handicap will fall now that you are playing better.  Of course, some guys will give you flack, but really most will be jealous that they haven`t improved like you have.

I could potentially be in the same boat as you this season, but it will be more first playing at my current course, so I can`t point to the previous two years of play like you can.  However, I don`t think they have that much in the way of competitions, so maybe my handicap will catch up with my play before I play any tournys.

[caniac6]

Originally Posted by turtleback

But letting someone get away with cheating, whether on the course or in the handicap arena, when you have an affirmative obligation to protect the field or protect the membership is making yourself an accessory to his cheating.  You get the club you deserve.

I am not going to start a fight over something as stupid as this. The guy had to turn his card in to the pro, so if there is a question about a score or a handicap it is his job to handle it, not mine.

I really don't understand that I get the club I deserve comment. I don't know about you, but when I join a golf club my first priority is to have fun. I wouldn't think to ask the general manager or membership chairman how many cheaters are in the club. I try to play by the rules, and have fun. You might feel a need to be the moral compass and rules enforcer where you play, but I feel no such obligation.

[johnclayton1982]

I'm a huge fan of the way my club runs tournaments.  Your handicap determines your flight, then its gross score within the flight.  Its better, but you need numbers.  It is a really fun way to run a tournament.  Its my goal to get in the top flight (5 handicap or lower) before the end of the year.

Quote:

I could potentially be in the same boat as you this season, but it will be more first playing at my current course, so I can`t point to the previous two years of play like you can.  However, I don`t think they have that much in the way of competitions, so maybe my handicap will catch up with my play before I play any tournys.

I don't think its that bad IMO.  A 16 capper shooting a 78 is much more believable than the original from the OP.  The lower the score, the harder it is to believe because it is harder and harder to shave strokes as you go lower and lower.  A 25 capper shooting 85?  Sure.  That is much more believable than, say, a 7-capper shooting 67.  Just IMO.

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by caniac6

I am not going to start a fight over something as stupid as this. The guy had to turn his card in to the pro, so if there is a question about a score or a handicap it is his job to handle it, not mine.

I really don't understand that I get the club I deserve comment. I don't know about you, but when I join a golf club my first priority is to have fun. I wouldn't think to ask the general manager or membership chairman how many cheaters are in the club. I try to play by the rules, and have fun. You might feel a need to be the moral compass and rules enforcer where you play, but I feel no such obligation.

If you aren't going to help your club control cheating you shouldn't complain about cheaters.  Peer review is the responsibility of EVERY member.  You don't have to go around trying to ferret out things, but when they are right in front of your nose, as in the case you cited, it IS your responsibility.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by MEfree

I wouldn`t worry about it...handicaps are a lagging indicator of your play- nobody was complaining when you were playing over your handicap and it was rising, so they should understand that your handicap will fall now that you are playing better.  Of course, some guys will give you flack, but really most will be jealous that they haven`t improved like you have.

I could potentially be in the same boat as you this season, but it will be more first playing at my current course, so I can`t point to the previous two years of play like you can.  However, I don`t think they have that much in the way of competitions, so maybe my handicap will catch up with my play before I play any tournys.

It turned out to not be so bad.  Word got around that I shot 77 in the qualifying event this past Thursday and some people half-jokingly said I shouldn't be getting so many strokes, but then I really struggled with my round and shot an 85 (still placed 3rd in my flight) and it wasn't even an issue.  Truth be told though, there are a significant number of sandbaggers in the club I'm in so it's not surprising.

The best golfer I know of in the club never even sticks around for the awards and results.  Why?  Because he is a legit 5 handicap and--from what I've seen--always plays to within a couple strokes of his course handicap, but never much lower.  The top three finishers are typically -5 to -2 net in each event.  The only thing he ever wins is closest-to-the-pin competitions.  To be completely honest, I'd rather be like him and have a low cap and always play very close to it than a lot of these other folks who hover around 20 and always shoot between 85-90 in competitions and win everything.

I did qualify for another NCGA event because I placed in the top 2 of all of the people who were attempting to qualify.  I find it odd, and perhaps telling (?) that more of these guys don't attempt to qualify.

Brandon

[MEfree]

Originally Posted by johnclayton1982

I don't think its that bad IMO.  A 16 capper shooting a 78 is much more believable than the original from the OP.  The lower the score, the harder it is to believe because it is harder and harder to shave strokes as you go lower and lower.  A 25 capper shooting 85?  Sure.  That is much more believable than, say, a 7-capper shooting 67.  Just IMO.

Totally agree with you...much easier for a 25 capper to make some improvements to his game and shave 10+ shots than for a single digit guy to do it.  This is especially true for someone relatively new to the game or who plays seasonally or ups the amount they plays/practices.  As an example, the first time I broke 90, it was an 85 (and the second time might have been an 82, but my memory is a bit fuzzy on that one).

What makes the 61 tough to believe in the OP is the fact that the modified alternate shot format should maybe help two scratch golfers improve something like 3-5 shots unless they are both very inconsistent drivers of the ball and very very good and consistent with everything else.  With this in mind, 3-5 under would seem like a good score for two scratches in this format.  These guys were not scratches and shot much lower, so both sandbagging and cheating seem like strong possibilities.

[realdealio]

That sucks. Ill be called a sandbagger soon, but not because I am. I carded 105, 103, 102 first three rounds of 6 rounds this year, as opposed to my 10 straight 90-91 last year to finish the season. So the last 3 rounds of the 6, I carded, three straight 88's. (Which really averages to about 90 overall) But, something just clicked with the game recently, and when I carded the last 88 on men's night the guy I was playing with said, 21 handicap huh? I said let me explain....yikes...but what can i do? it is what it is...

[eich41]

Originally Posted by realdealio

That sucks. Ill be called a sandbagger soon, but not because I am. I carded 105, 103, 102 first three rounds of 6 rounds this year, as opposed to my 10 straight 90-91 last year to finish the season. So the last 3 rounds of the 6, I carded, three straight 88's. (Which really averages to about 90 overall) But, something just clicked with the game recently, and when I carded the last 88 on men's night the guy I was playing with said, 21 handicap huh? I said let me explain....yikes...but what can i do? it is what it is...

A 21 HC shooting an 88 isn't at all crazy.  That's within 5 strokes of what you theoretically should shoot.  And at that high of a handicap, that could be as simple as having one less errant tee shot that went OB or in a hazard and one or two longer putts than what you normally make.  Or maybe you get lucky and chip one in, that could save you at least two strokes maybe three.

Like someone already pointed out, the slope of improvement is steep at high handicaps and almost flat at the low-scratch level.  A scratch golfer has to get a lot better to get to a +1 or +2.  Conversely a 30 capper only needs to eliminate 1 or 2 poor shots per round to shave 3-4 off his HC.