Match play, both players commit loss-of-hole act

[zeg]

Originally Posted by rustyredcab

I don't think two players can incur the time penalty on the same hole in match play. One of them had to incur it first and that player looses right then. Further actions do not matter. Sure, letting a player keep playing after the hole is over does not change the hole result. But that extra play could have an effect on the match in many ways. What if someone gets hurt while playing after the hole is over but they don't know it because the official kept it secret waiting for them to reach the next tee?

When it is over, it is over and there is no reason to keep it secret be it a time penalty or any other loss of hole penalty.

It's just a fact of golf that, at times, a player will have incomplete information. While I agree your example would be unfortunate, that situation could equally well arise if a player has not yet discovered that her opponent just made a stroke on a wrong ball.

I'm going to restrain myself from commenting on the time penalty any further. It's not necessary for this topic, the questionable copy of the rule that we had in the other thread hasn't been brought up in this one, etc.

[rustyredcab]

Originally Posted by zeg

It's just a fact of golf that, at times, a player will have incomplete information. ...

True that!

But what if the information is known to one but withheld from the other player(s)? Should a player be allowed to not say anything about a loss of hole penalty until the next tee, for no reason and thus have an opponent keep playing? I really am asking. It need not even be a loss of hole penalty. In a Ryder Cup event, does a player have an obligation to say if they incurred a penalty or can they simply wait until after the hole and say, "I touched the sand back there..." Must they disclose before the other player concedes?

[Rulesman]

A player must not give wrong information to his opponent . If a player gives wrong information, he loses the hole .

A player is deemed to have given wrong information if he:

(i) fails to inform his opponent as soon as practicable that he has incurred a penalty, unless (a) he was obviously proceeding under a Rule involving a penalty and this was observed by his opponent, or (b) he corrects the mistake before his opponent makes his next stroke ;

[Dormie1360]

This is in addition to what Rulesman posted.

A player has given wrong information even if it is due to the failure to include a penalty that he did not know he had incurred. It is the player’s responsibility to know the Rules . The penalty for giving wrong information is loss of hole.

One of the main principles of Match play is that both players have an understanding of how the match and hole stands before every shot.  I have not been following the slow play rule that closely so I can't commit on how this applies to that discussion. I would think however, if a player loses a hole, it's only an issue as far as notification, if the players are not informed before the play of their strokes on the next tee.  As far as both players being on the clock, I'd guess that the first one to breach the rule, incurs the loss of hole penalty.  I have not read LPGA's slow play rule, however.

I will say that the application of Rule 9-2 Information as to Strokes Taken -Match Play and Rule 2-5 Doubt as to Procedure, Disputes and Claims can get rather complicated......at least for me.