your form is all wrong...

[Mobey]

Hey all I have a question. I hit my irons very well. Five or six tears ago I purchased a set of Cleveland TA7's and I didn't hit them very well. I adjusted my swing by moving my hands forward and playing the ball back on my stance a bit and I am very comfortable with my irons now. I hit them straight and long enough (6 iron is about 160). Today I got paired up with a guy who said " you know, your form is all wrong, you could be a decent golfer if you fixed that". Well he got in my head and made me wonder if I should fix something I didn't think was broken. What are your thoughts? If I'm happy with my results should I care about "correctness"?

[Motley01]

Don't listen to him.

That's like telling Jim Furyk and other PGA Tour players with weird swings that their "form" is wrong.

It doesn't matter what it looks like, if your in the correct position at impact, thats all the matters.

[Harmonious]

Two possible scenarios:

1)He's wrong. Your swing is really good as it is, no changes are necessary.

2)He's right.  There are some noticeable issues with your swing, and you could be a better golfer with some changes.

The question you have to ask yourself is whether you are perfectly happy with where you are right now, comfortable with a swing that produces scores in the high 80's on most days.  Or, do you have some flaws that could be corrected, and would produce a better swing and better scores.  Only you can answer that. Some folks are fine with a 15 cap, others want to get it down to a 10 or lower.

[iacas]

I like what Harmonious said.

Your form gets you to a 15.2 index.

Most likely it'll need to improve if you want to get better. But do you want to get better, or are you content to shoot in the high 80s/low 90s?

[Mobey]

You guys have some great points... Of course I want to get better and improve my handicap because that is where my love for this game comes from... Challenging myself. But to be perfectly honest, Ive thought my irons were the one thing I really had going for me. So to improve, do u think I should concentrate on the areas I need the most (short game) or really change everything at once?

[xmanhockey7]

Everyone, including tour pros, could improve their swings.

[allin]

Hey all I have a question. I hit my irons very well. Five or six tears ago I purchased a set of Cleveland TA7's and I didn't hit them very well. I adjusted my swing by moving my hands forward and playing the ball back on my stance a bit and I am very comfortable with my irons now. I hit them straight and long enough (6 iron is about 160). Today I got paired up with a guy who said " you know, your form is all wrong, you could be a decent golfer if you fixed that". Well he got in my head and made me wonder if I should fix something I didn't think was broken. What are your thoughts? If I'm happy with my results should I care about "correctness"?

The real issue is why should you trust this guys opinion. If you want to improve find a teaching source to evaluate your performance. You can assist by keeping some stats on your game gir, fairways, putts, sand saves etc. With an evaluation of where you are at set a goal for improvement that makes sense to you.

[x129]

I think this is too simplistic. He could be losing a ton of shots elsewhere (putting, chipping, course managment) so with his exact same form, maybe he could be a 5.  Or maybe with his existing form spending 500 hours practicing will give him the consistency he needs to be a 5. But we are all guessing what is ment by "Bad Form". Are we talking a JIm Furyk, Arnold Palmer, Tommy Gaines,... where the impact is solid but it looks funny at some point or are you flipping all over the place. Heck without a video, I would assume you have bad form. Maybe the commenter just doesn't like your swing pattern.

Originally Posted by iacas

I like what Harmonious said.

Your form gets you to a 15.2 index.

Most likely it'll need to improve if you want to get better. But do you want to get better, or are you content to shoot in the high 80s/low 90s?

[Harmonious]

Realistically, how many low handicappers have bad form? Even Jim Furyk does not have bad form at impact.  From the OP's first post, his playing partner said "you could be a decent golfer if you fixed that." which implies that the partner didn't think he was decent at that time. My guess is if he played with Furyk, young Palmer or Gainey, not knowing who they were, and saw their level of play, he would not make the same comment.

There may be exceptions here and there, but generally a 15 capper's swing looks more or less like a 15 capper, and a scratch player's swing looks more or less like a scratch player.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by x129

I think this is too simplistic. He could be losing a ton of shots elsewhere (putting, chipping, course managment) so with his exact same form, maybe he could be a 5.

The odds of that being the case are roughly the same odds as you winning the lottery.

My form was LOUSY when I was a 1.8. Seriously atrocious. But that's on a relative scale - it's atrocious to my form now, but miles better than what we see from 15 handicappers.

Originally Posted by x129

Are we talking a JIm Furyk, Arnold Palmer, Tommy Gaines,... where the impact is solid but it looks funny at some point or are you flipping all over the place. Heck without a video, I would assume you have bad form. Maybe the commenter just doesn't like your swing pattern.

Except none of those golfers have bad form. Form follows function, my friend. :)

Originally Posted by Harmonious

There may be exceptions here and there, but generally a 15 capper's swing looks more or less like a 15 capper, and a scratch player's swing looks more or less like a scratch player.

Yup.

[x129]

Given the OP has said that the short game is a weakness, I wouldn't be shocked if their are 5+ strokes there. But sure feel free to think that is a 10 in a million possiblility.  You also misread my statement. I didn't not say any of the pros have bad form. I said they looked funny at nonImpact positions.  The guy at the tee box is commenting on how pretty a swing is. He isn't looking at impact position. And again he might be clueless.

Obviously to score better the swing needs to get better. But that is true of pretty much any golfer. What isn't clear is are things "all wrong" or are things basically right and over the next 3k hours of practice and play and some tuning will things get smoothed out and turn into a decent swing.  OP should post a video and people can give informed comments about his swing.

Originally Posted by iacas

The odds of that being the case are roughly the same odds as you winning the lottery.

My form was LOUSY when I was a 1.8. Seriously atrocious. But that's on a relative scale - it's atrocious to my form now, but miles better than what we see from 15 handicappers.

Except none of those golfers have bad form. Form follows function, my friend. :)

Yup.

[mdl]

I agree with Erik.  It's all but 100% certain that someone with a 15.2 index has mechanical flaws in his swing (just as it's certain that I, playing off a ~10 index, have some mechanical flaws).  It's basically impossible to hit irons like a scratch player and lose enough strokes elsewhere to only be able to card a 15.2.

The real question, as pointed out above, is whether the OP is content to shoot around 90, +/-, maybe shaving a few strokes off with improved short game and course management, or whether the OP wants to embark on a big swing change mission that will probably require tons of time and frustration but might allow him to take a big leap.

[Motley01]

Couldn't you have good form, and still be a high handicapper?

What is form anyways?, are we talking about just the swing, or somebody's overall game?

Some people have great (form) full swings, but can't chip or putt.

[x129]

This comes down to your definition of good. You could be (roughly) a 15 handicapper with a 10 handicapper long game and a 20 handicapper short game. You are not going to have a +1 long game and a 30 handicapper short game though.

No one is saying his swing is perfect. But I also doubt it is all wrong.

Originally Posted by Motley01

Couldn't you have good form, and still be a high handicapper?

What is form anyways?, are we talking about just the swing, or somebody's overall game?

Some people have great (form) full swings, but can't chip or putt.

[Jeff Gibson]

Originally Posted by x129

I think this is too simplistic. He could be losing a ton of shots elsewhere (putting, chipping, course managment) so with his exact same form, maybe he could be a 5.  Or maybe with his existing form spending 500 hours practicing will give him the consistency he needs to be a 5. But we are all guessing what is ment by "Bad Form". Are we talking a JIm Furyk, Arnold Palmer, Tommy Gaines,... where the impact is solid but it looks funny at some point or are you flipping all over the place. Heck without a video, I would assume you have bad form. Maybe the commenter just doesn't like your swing pattern.

This is exactly right.

Most players that come to me with handicaps between 15-30 need short game work - BADLY. Unfortunately, most only want swing lessons because they do not understand the importance of the "little shots". With some short game work, you could be a much better player. In fact, the difference between amateurs and pros is not ball striking - it short game!

Once you get your short game stats up to par (and by that I mean 50 percent up and downs, 30 percent out of the bunker, under 32 putts CONSISTENTLY - or whatever goals you and your pro come up with) THEN you should go, "ok Bob, now that my short game is tight, how else can I improve"?

You will also notice that your game will remain solid if and when you decide to make a swing chance. :)

As for changing your swing to fit the club - that was a deffinate mistake to us old pro's. But what is done is done. Dance with the gal you brought man.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by x129

Given the OP has said that the short game is a weakness, I wouldn't be shocked if their are 5+ strokes there. But sure feel free to think that is a 10 in a million possiblility.

It's highly, unlikely he's going to shave 10 strokes with just his short game (don't shift the goalposts). It's more likely that, for his handicap, his short game is actually slightly better than his long game. Thanks for the permission, though.

Originally Posted by Motley01

Some people have great (form) full swings, but can't chip or putt.

Good luck finding those people. They don't exist, not in any significant quantities.

[x129]

You really need to read the posts before replying. I never said 10 shots with just the short game (any stroke 100 in. Feel free to use whatever definition you want). I said he potentially could drop 10 shots without major form changes. The short game is likely where most of them come from (going from like 38 putts to 32 is where the 5+ comes from. A good chunk of that will be from better chipping) but he potentially can get some elsewhere by better course managment, learning his distances, and emotional control if that is an issue. Heck he can even hit the golf ball better without changing his form.  Maybe 6 months of lifting weights and doing plyo's will get him 10 more yards on all his clubs and that would be worth 2 strokes a round. And as I said in the OP, maybe 6 months of practice with the same form gives him the consistency he needs to drop another couple of strokes.

Redoing your swing based on the comments of some guy you are matched up with on the course seems crazy to me. Finding someone that you trust to critic your swing is a lot more sane.

Quote:

It's highly, unlikely he's going to shave 10 strokes with just his short game (don't shift the goalposts). It's more likely that, for his handicap, his short game is actually slightly better than his long game. Thanks for the permission, though.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by x129

You really need to read the posts before replying. I never said 10 shots with just the short game (any stroke 100 in. Feel free to use whatever definition you want). I said he potentially could drop 10 shots without major form changes.

I think my response was a closer to what you originally said:

Originally Posted by x129

He could be losing a ton of shots elsewhere (putting, chipping, course managment) so with his exact same form, maybe he could be a 5.

And I never said he should change his swing because of what one guy said. I simply said it's highly unlikely his form is fine and he'll get down to breaking 80 regularly without changing his swing. That's it.