Furyk's slip on the 16th

[zipazoid]

Originally Posted by iacas


Be honest, zip: that's just another way of saying "if you don't agree with me, I don't want to hear from you."

No, it means we are going to disagree. I have no power to stop anyone from saying whatever they want. It's worth repeating - if you think the rule's the rule, then stop right there. I don't need to hear anymore - that's not the same as I don't want to hear anymore.

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What other time should they have done it?

Never. It shouldn't have happened.

I know you disagree on it affecting Furyk on 16 - we were debating that in the chat room when it happened. But we really don't know, do we? What we do know is the official notified them on 15 & on Furyk's next full swing he hit arguably his worst shot of the tournament. Now, maybe that was just coincidence. I don't think it was.

[TN94z]

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Originally Posted by Zeph

I don't understand how one of the best players in the world is unable to adjust to tees changing 100 yards. He could've hit a 7 iron and play it like he did the previous days. If he didn't feel confident about turning over a 3-wood that much, leave the club in the bag and hit an iron, like Graeme did.
He hit a crappy shot, that is all. If you can't cope with a surprise like that, or with being warned about slow play, you don't deserve to win the US Open. I don't see anyone else who had problems with snap hooks off that tee on sunday.

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“We never heard all week from the USGA that they were going to move the tee up there,” Woods said. “They said it was going to be 602 and 675 and we come out there today and it’s 575.

Is really 25 yards such a big deal? The players got time to figure out the exact yardages when standing on the tee and finding the proper club, regardless of how much they moved the tees up.

I don't really understand the big deal with the tees being moved period.  I don't even think it should matter that they have notice. Go out and play golf and like you said, figure it out while standing on the tee. It's not like they had never seen the hole before, right?  So they have some idea of the yardages.   I just think that Jim is upset with the shot that was hit and being so competitive, he needs something to blame it on.  That's just my take.

[TN94z]

Mike Davis' comments on the tee move Sunday:

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We think one of the elements of the test for a national championship is the ability to react at the moment to a golf course setup,” Davis said when he joined “Morning Drive” on Tuesday. “While we don’t want inconsistencies with green firmness or green speeds we like the idea of mixing up teeing grounds because it really does make them think.

“In the case of Sunday it certainly made them think at a very important time in the championship. In some players case it made a difference.”

[iacas]

No, it means we are going to disagree. I have no power to stop anyone from saying whatever they want. It's worth repeating - if you think the rule's the rule, then stop right there. I don't need to hear anymore - that's not the same as I don't want to hear anymore.

Then apply the same logic and don't bother to post your thoughts. It's a discussion forum. It's rude to say "I don't want to hear from you if you disagree with me." If it affected him - then he should have played faster so as not to be warned. Why didn't the first warning affect him? Why was it just the second? Sorry zip, I'm applying a little Occam's razor here: the simplest explanation is the one he gave - he hadn't practiced from there and was uncomfortable over the shot. He wasn't prepared.

[zipazoid]

Originally Posted by iacas

Then apply the same logic and don't bother to post your thoughts. It's a discussion forum. It's rude to say "I don't want to hear from you if you disagree with me."

Agreed. That's why I didn't say that.

As far as posting my thoughts, some will agree and some won't...as I have certainly found out here. But I think you're reading in too much into what I was attempting to say, which simply was, if you believe the rules are the rules regardless of the situation, then I understand your point. No more elaboration is needed. It's not a matter of not wanting to hear it. It's a matter of understanding your point, therefore not needing to hear it. It was meant as acknowledgment & understanding, not rudeness. Maybe I'm guilty of inartfully saying it. But that's what I meant.

As far as why didn't Furyk react with a bad shot on the first warning, first off, did he? When was the first warning & how did he react?

Secondly, and this is why I think it was terrible timing, he was leading the US Open with 3 holes to play . Not to say I know what was in Furyk's brain at that point in time, but I would imagine he was so focused on the moment that the official's second warning was like a hammer against glass - it shattered his thinking, or at least interrupted it. He was affected, I think on that we can agree. Is that not the intention of the warning - to affect the player?

Yes I know - it's to affect him by getting his butt moving. But it still was an interruption to his routine at a critical juncture of the tournament. It really wasn't surprising, to me, that he hit a horrible tee shot on 16 in the wake of it.

[TN94z]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

Agreed. That's why I didn't say that.

As far as posting my thoughts, some will agree and some won't...as I have certainly found out here. But I think you're reading in too much into what I was attempting to say, which simply was, if you believe the rules are the rules regardless of the situation, then I understand your point. No more elaboration is needed. It's not a matter of not wanting to hear it. It's a matter of understanding your point, therefore not needing to hear it. It was meant as acknowledgment & understanding, not rudeness. Maybe I'm guilty of inartfully saying it. But that's what I meant.

As far as why didn't Furyk react with a bad shot on the first warning, first off, did he? When was the first warning & how did he react?

Secondly, and this is why I think it was terrible timing, he was leading the US Open with 3 holes to play. Not to say I know what was in Furyk's brain at that point in time, but I would imagine he was so focused on the moment that the official's second warning was like a hammer against glass - it shattered his thinking, or at least interrupted it. He was affected, I think on that we can agree. Is that not the intention of the warning - to affect the player?

Yes I know - it's to affect him by getting his butt moving. But it still was an interruption to his routine at a critical juncture of the tournament. It really wasn't surprising, to me, that he hit a horrible tee shot on 16 in the wake of it.

I see what you are saying, but (and this is just my opinion) rules are rules.  If you say that the official should have waited just because the situation, then that opens a can of worms for tournaments in the future.  Then there is no reason why it can't span out into other tournaments, not just majors.  What about in the playoffs where every tournament is important? Now I know this portion is the "rules are the rules" that you were referring to, but the next paragraph is how I see Furyk's issue.

So, hypothetically, had Furyk gotten the warning on the 3rd hole and then went on to bogie the 4th and 5th holes, then never really got his round back....would that be the same case?  Should the official had waited at that point as well?  I understand the timing was very bad, but ultimately, it was Furyk's fault for giving the official a reason to give the warning. I think it was a bad situation, but one that was brought about by Furyk himself.  I agree it may have caused a poor decision on the 16th, but had Furyk hit the same club with the shot shape that he intended, we wouldn't be having this conversation.  What I see is just an untimely bad swing and a player trying to justify it.

[MEfree]

Originally Posted by TN94z

I don't really understand the big deal with the tees being moved period.  I don't even think it should matter that they have notice. Go out and play golf and like you said, figure it out while standing on the tee. It's not like they had never seen the hole before, right?  So they have some idea of the yardages.   I just think that Jim is upset with the shot that was hit and being so competitive, he needs something to blame it on.  That's just my take.

I generally agree with you, but moving the tees is going to mean much more on a dog leg and/or where the fairway is not level.  A Champion should be able to put that uncertainly aside and hit a quality shot, but it is nice to have hit a few balls from the tee you are going to play when it is a dog leg where line and distance both matter.  Tour players must have the same thing happen when the wind is very different compared to prior practice/competitive rounds, so they obviously need to be able to commit and hit a good shot regardless.

Furyk may be better prepared than most which translates into dealing with uncertainty less.

[TN94z]

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Originally Posted by MEfree

I generally agree with you, but moving the tees is going to mean much more on a dog leg and/or where the fairway is not level.  A Champion should be able to put that uncertainly aside and hit a quality shot, but it is nice to have hit a few balls from the tee you are going to play when it is a dog leg where line and distance both matter.  Tour players must have the same thing happen when the wind is very different compared to prior practice/competitive rounds, so they obviously need to be able to commit and hit a good shot regardless.

Furyk may be better prepared than most which translates into dealing with uncertainty less.

I agree.

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A Champion should be able to put that uncertainly aside and hit a quality shot,

I guess this is my only point.  They should be able to adjust regardless.  It is nice to have seen it before, but isn't that a big part of the game?  Having the ability to adapt and work through tough situations?

Not arguing with you because I agree with what you said. I'm just talking generally.

[Chas]

I was very surprised to hear Furyk comment on the tee position the way he did. He may not have been making an excuse but IMO it's a mistake to talk as if you are - even as you seem to be denying it. I thought they did a superb job preparing the course throughout the whole event. It was a stern test of skill but in no way unfair - isn't that a desirable thing in a Major?